How can I solve the thermal trottling and power throttling problems on my Helios 300?

Benkij

Hi!
I have a PH317-52-7373 (1060 6gb, i7-8750H, 16gb RAM) and recently the power and heat throttling is appearing more times. When I bought the laptop, it did only whyle I played Wildlands and there was like 10 min between the 2 throttling. For now I have the throttling with almost every game (For Honor, Wildlands, WoT, COD Warzone, etc) and extremely frequently. I'm using intelXTU to undervolt the CPU at -130 V, within the PredatorSense, I'm using the turbo on GPU (it helped at the beggining) and max speed on the CPU vents, and the razer cortex too. Some days ago I semi optimized my pc following this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTPMwQKlfPE .

If it matters, I'm using bitdefender and discord, opera, spotify are running in the back all the time.

aphanic

I am surprised it hasn't been suggested before, re-paste the interface between the heatsink and the heating areas (CPU, GPU, maybe even VRMs if they're also covered by any type of plate).

It involves opening the device and taking it apart somewhat, but a high performance thermal compound would get you better heat dissipation leading to less thermal throttling. You'll still get it probably, because it is inherent to the way the computer and its cooling system was designed, but it is way more effective than just undervolting.

I have had good experiences with several compounds, both the usually recommended (e.g. Arctic MX-4) and some less known ones (Prolimatech PK-3), but I have never delved into liquid metal (some kind of gallium alloy) because that's conductive and I'd just rather not risk it. Other than that, improvements across the board for any kind of workload, even idling.

busu3

Benkij said:

I'm not sure, this is, what you asked for. If it isnt the CPU usage, then where can I find the graph? About the temps only with XTU, PredatorSense and BitDefender active. Sorry for the temp graph, I forgot to print screen it, but the big curve is the start of the game, the peak was 97 degrees celsius. Avg FPS in warzone was around 67

I meant to close all the programs while gaming and then check the temps. If it heats to high temps in this state then u may most likely have to replace ur thermal paste. I did it recently and I got a decrease of about 20'C. I used artic mx-4 but I would recommend kryonaut.

xapim

Benkij dont use xtu use ts instead check here and if the temps are still high you need to get it repasted either yourself if you can with kryonaut or similar without voiding your warranty or send it back to acer to get it repasted with stock paste good luck

busu3

What is your background cpu usage. What are the temps in the same games when programs in the background are closed?

Benkij

I'm not sure, this is, what you asked for. If it isnt the CPU usage, then where can I find the graph? About the temps only with XTU, PredatorSense and BitDefender active. Sorry for the temp graph, I forgot to print screen it, but the big curve is the start of the game, the peak was 97 degrees celsius. Avg FPS in warzone was around 67

aphanic

I am surprised it hasn't been suggested before, re-paste the interface between the heatsink and the heating areas (CPU, GPU, maybe even VRMs if they're also covered by any type of plate).

It involves opening the device and taking it apart somewhat, but a high performance thermal compound would get you better heat dissipation leading to less thermal throttling. You'll still get it probably, because it is inherent to the way the computer and its cooling system was designed, but it is way more effective than just undervolting.

I have had good experiences with several compounds, both the usually recommended (e.g. Arctic MX-4) and some less known ones (Prolimatech PK-3), but I have never delved into liquid metal (some kind of gallium alloy) because that's conductive and I'd just rather not risk it. Other than that, improvements across the board for any kind of workload, even idling.

Benkij

Well, I thinked about re-pasting with the liquid metal paste, but I'm not sure, I want it or not. If there is no other way to solve the problem, I'll bring the pc to a shop and ask for re-pasting with the liquid metal.

But first of all, I want to find a way with softwares.

Also is it possible to open up the covered back plate? If I'm not mistaking, the helios 700 or triton has opened both sides of the back to have more space where the air can flow

aphanic

The idea behind applying a high performance thermal compound is to transfer heat as fast as possible from the areas that produce it to the cooling system, in this case probably some copper-tube-vapor-chamber-situation.

The sooner that heat can be taken off of the areas that produce it and onto the cooling solution, the cooler those areas remain. For example... thermal pads, those silicone looking colored things, they are better than air at conducting heat, but they're sh¡t compared to compounds (I haven't tried those graphite made ones, but I bet my behind they're also worse).

Metals are great at conducting heat, that's why the tubes that go from the hot areas to the heatsinks and fans are made of it, I think it's thermal conductivity is around the 400s W/mK, but we need to use something between the dies and those copper pipes because of little imperfections during production. And that's why we put stuff between the two.

Liquid metal, being a metal, is probably ranked among the better solutions there are for that. Being electrically conductive though is a chore, because you need to be precise in its application or you can short something, and there are thermal compounds that are also electrically conductive.

There's just too many options, I choose to use non-electrically conductive pastes to avoid headaches if I put too much for example and it spreads off of its intended location. Needless to say, what the manufacturers usually put between the cooler and the heating areas isn't really up to par.

And yep, perfectly possible to disassemble the back and remove the heatpipes/heatsink/fan assembly for repasting those models.

busu3

Benkij said:

I'm not sure, this is, what you asked for. If it isnt the CPU usage, then where can I find the graph? About the temps only with XTU, PredatorSense and BitDefender active. Sorry for the temp graph, I forgot to print screen it, but the big curve is the start of the game, the peak was 97 degrees celsius. Avg FPS in warzone was around 67

I meant to close all the programs while gaming and then check the temps. If it heats to high temps in this state then u may most likely have to replace ur thermal paste. I did it recently and I got a decrease of about 20'C. I used artic mx-4 but I would recommend kryonaut.

Benkij

aphanic said:

The idea behind applying a high performance thermal compound is to transfer heat as fast as possible from the areas that produce it to the cooling system, in this case probably some copper-tube-vapor-chamber-situation.

The sooner that heat can be taken off of the areas that produce it and onto the cooling solution, the cooler those areas remain. For example... thermal pads, those silicone looking colored things, they are better than air at conducting heat, but they're sh¡t compared to compounds (I haven't tried those graphite made ones, but I bet my behind they're also worse).

Metals are great at conducting heat, that's why the tubes that go from the hot areas to the heatsinks and fans are made of it, I think it's thermal conductivity is around the 400s W/mK, but we need to use something between the dies and those copper pipes because of little imperfections during production. And that's why we put stuff between the two.

Liquid metal, being a metal, is probably ranked among the better solutions there are for that. Being electrically conductive though is a chore, because you need to be precise in its application or you can short something, and there are thermal compounds that are also electrically conductive.

There's just too many options, I choose to use non-electrically conductive pastes to avoid headaches if I put too much for example and it spreads off of its intended location. Needless to say, what the manufacturers usually put between the cooler and the heating areas isn't really up to par.

And yep, perfectly possible to disassemble the back and remove the heatpipes/heatsink/fan assembly for repasting those models.

That is the reason, why I want to bring the pc to the shop and let them do it. Then it wont be my fault and maybe the garantie will save me if it goes wrong.

Thanks, than I'll remowe the closed part.

Benkij

busu3 said:

Benkij said:

I'm not sure, this is, what you asked for. If it isnt the CPU usage, then where can I find the graph? About the temps only with XTU, PredatorSense and BitDefender active. Sorry for the temp graph, I forgot to print screen it, but the big curve is the start of the game, the peak was 97 degrees celsius. Avg FPS in warzone was around 67

I meant to close all the programs while gaming and then check the temps. If it heats to high temps in this state then u may most likely have to replace ur thermal paste. I did it recently and I got a decrease of about 20'C. I used artic mx-4 but I would recommend kryonaut.

Oh, allright. I'll use the predatorsense to monitor the temps, but should I change the fan's speed to auto or just leave them on max, as usual? And how can I turn off the bitdefender? I wasnt able to find that option

Benkij

So with max CPU fan speed and auto GPU fan speed without other programs running in the back I got an avg temp of 87'C in 2 matches of warzone. It had 2 peaks in the pregame lobby where the avg temp was 94'C. In this 2 matches I wasnt able to shut down the bitdefender, but I turned off all of its features which may be infect the performance like firewall, threat defense, etc

busu3

Benkij said:

So with max CPU fan speed and auto GPU fan speed without other programs running in the back I got an avg temp of 87'C in 2 matches of warzone. It had 2 peaks in the pregame lobby where the avg temp was 94'C. In this 2 matches I wasnt able to shut down the bitdefender, but I turned off all of its features which may be infect the performance like firewall, threat defense, etc

87 is pretty high so I think u should get a repaste done. Its not hard to do it by yourself. I always play with the antivirus, it hasn't caused me any performance issues.

busu3

Also dust can be a big issue because it may clog the vents.

Benkij

Alright, thank you guys! I'll check out all the recommended pastes and do the repaste. Btw I have warantee so is it a good idea to do the repaste by myself? I think, it would screw the warantee

busu3

Yes if u do it by yourself it will void the warranty. So u can try ur luck with the acer repair centres.

Benkij

Okay, thank you very much!

busu3

You're welcome!

xapim

Benkij dont use xtu use ts instead check here and if the temps are still high you need to get it repasted either yourself if you can with kryonaut or similar without voiding your warranty or send it back to acer to get it repasted with stock paste good luck

aphanic

In my humble opinion, there's no need to go with liquid metal solutions, but re-pasting with a high end compound makes a major difference.

It will certainly void the warranty for some reason, it shouldn't when performed by a certified repair center, but I doubt they'd install the compound you want.

I just wish more manufacturers used better compounds, right now there are but a few that use high performance stuff, it's like a niche thing.

xapim

aphanic it will only void the warranty if you have to breach warranty seals/stickers (not all countries have them) otherwise it will not void anything if nothing is damaged during the process also in some countries the service center will allow the usage of the thermal paste you buy for them to apply but not many and manufacturers use kryonaut but only on their most top tier expensive machines like for ex the new H700 refresh the top tier of the variant comes repasted with kryonaut as far as im aware and it was said in the acer ceo presentation 

aphanic

Yeah @xapim, besides, I think those "warranty void if broken" seals are illegal in the States now.

The problem is where the burden of proof lies (lawfully speaking), which varies from place to place.

For example, in the EU it would be the seller who'd have to proof that your device stopped working because of an action you performed (in this case, repasting), you wouldn't need to do it. And by proof I mean proof, correlation isn't enough, but when you say "I opened the device, disassembled the cooling assembly, replaced the thermal compound and now the device doesn't power up" it is kind of hard for you to make your case that it wasn't a direct result of something you did.

Still, if you neglect to mention that, and send the laptop for servicing it may be just fine, whatever the cause they'd fix it.

By the way!! All of this is hypothetical people! I don't want to make people think that reapplying thermal compounds is something hard to do or dangerous when done properly, far from it, and there are plenty of videos in YouTube with people performing the procedure both in desktops and laptops so you have nothing to worry about.

xapim

aphanic in the US/CA they are illegal for a long time now in the EU thy are not but most manufactures do not seal them at least here in the UK they just re-seal them after it goes back to warranty for some reason to assure their engineers work has not been tampered with thats a common practice and yes youre completely correct when contacting the support if you say that you opened it its done forget it in my personal view you should be entitled to upgrade and repasted as long as you do not damage anything because if you do and then go to claim warranty theres no way thats going to happen i optimised/undervolted and repasted mine with krynaut the first week i got it dropped the temps 25+  also upgraded ram to 32gb hyperx 2666  (which i sold to a co worker with a nitro 5 8th gen and swapped for 32gb vengeance 2400 7th gen cpus only support 2400mhz no point in having 2666)   and a 2tb wdblue 3d nand ssd also bought a 3 year extended warranty after all this is a long term expensive investment i bought it in april 2018 still have warranty till next year never needed it and hope i wont but its well worth it i barely touch it now its juts remote access as i use my shadow vm instead but if i need it its here