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BIOS update to support Ryzen 3700x? Helios 500 question

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FAQ & Answers

  • Andy_Da_AceAndy_Da_Ace Posts: 7Member

    Tinkerer

    Yes!!!!! Thank you for spending the time and money to do this swap.  I actually believe that Acer is working on a new version of this laptop and we will see it this Christmas.  That is just my belief. Anyways I so want this to work out for you!!! My bet is that the chip is going to work, the only problem is that it won't be up to it full potential. I've done hardware hacks like this before almost all of them worked. I'm an embedded engineer who started a company doing board level repairs on electronics so i got some experience on this matter.  Companies like AMD are not trying the reinvent the wheel here when is comes to pin out and form factor. The watts a ryzen 3000 takes is the same as the 2700x.  Hopefully all goes well.  This is going to answer a lot of questions. 

    If it doesn't work we all need to call Acer and ask why. If enough people ask Acer will put it on their to do list. 
  • VanguardVanguard Posts: 5Member New User
    Sorry for bothering mr burnxl
    It was a success like the 2700x owner in amazon? Or...
    How did the installation went?
  • NiteNinjaNiteNinja Posts: 38Member Devotee
    There is enough cooling and wattage headroom to technically get the 95w 12-core 24-thread processor to work too. Won't be able to overclock it, but for a content creator on the go, there's no denying that it would be the most powerful mobile workstation money can buy right now. Acer could capitalize on that, as long as they use this exact form factor. Trying to slim it up even a little will tip the scales the wrong way. 
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    So I just wanted to give you an update - tl;dr I have NOT yet tried to put in the 3700x. 

    The laptop came on Friday and I popped in a 2nd SSD and another 16gb of RAM (got it for basically free + $10 through some weird Amazon exchange)...decided I was going to enjoy it as-is out of the box for a day and then get to the upgrade.

    As you might expect, I started playing Apex and Overwatch and was just confused by this thing...it's silent. I mean it doesn't even have an audible fan blowing air that I can air against just the background of my home office. OW and Apex both run at a level I wasn't really prepared for, and I've been lost a bit in time.

    So - if the community consensus is that there's no real harm in trying to see if the 3700x will boot up and work, I'll give it a shot tomorrow. It seems like I maybe should either wait for some unofficialy BIOS workarounds, or consider the possibility that I'll brick my new baby.

    Any input here would be helpful, I mean - it's so much faster than I was expecting already, I'm super happy with it. Over 144fps in both games without an issue and I did what used to be 6 hours of work in about 2.
  • xapimxapim Posts: 3,164ACE Pathfinder
    As i said before the worst that could happen its not booting up it wouldnt harm anything its just a cpu swap not like replacing the adapter to a more powerful for ex  if it wont boot not even to get into the bios that means its not supported :) and u can pop up the stock one back again 


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1969145569968592/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • NiteNinjaNiteNinja Posts: 38Member Devotee
    Yeah as I mentioned earlier, the cooling on this form-factor is phenomenal. Usually I swap the thermal paste of any new laptop I get but I haven't felt the need for this one. 

    If you live in the US, they can't void your warranty if you open it up to do basic upgrades, so even if you have a fear of breaking it, there's that.

    But I've dropped incompatible CPUs in motherboards before (LGA 1151 anyone?) and they just don't boot. Black screen. That's all that'll happen. AM4 socket is electrically wired to handle all AM4 CPUs, so there won't even be a electrical conduit risk. Just be sure you don't bend the pins of the processors and remove the heatsink and processor vertically away from the board. 
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    OK...I'll give it a try today - it seems like there's actually hope for it working now. Should report back tonight. 
  • NiteNinjaNiteNinja Posts: 38Member Devotee
    BurnsXL said:
    OK...I'll give it a try today - it seems like there's actually hope for it working now. Should report back tonight. 
    Also I've read that when you try to boot up a ryzen 3000 processor in a 400 series motherboard, the processor may make the computer power cycle several times before actually booting. So if it turns on and then restart several times, give it a few minutes. It just goes to a blank screen or keeps doing it, shut it off and swap it back.
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    Howdy all, I know a few of you are waiting with a lot of excitement on the result of this. Probably something I should have realized sooner, but after getting detailed instructions on how to do this I realized I needed thermal paste and should also be wearing gloves/guaranteed grounding to be safe. 

    Should be here tonight, at which point I'll make the swap...noted on the power cycle thing. 

    Also a bit random, but if any of you have ever had a strange issue with programs/games freezing for about 10-15s in a strange way (certain functions work, like the mouse and menus) but nothing updates until a full-on jump out of said freeze...it's the Killer Networking app. 

    Disable the feature called Detect Priority Streaming or something - gets rid of it. Was almost a deal-breaker until I figured it out, as I was literally losing games of Apex because I couldn't do anything (or know what was happening while I was stuck). 
  • tobimarutobimaru Posts: 315Member Skilled Practitioner
    https://www.techpowerup.com/257201/bios-rom-size-limitations-almost-derail-amds-zen2-backwards-compatibility-promise

    Worth reading. Apparently the compatibility comes down to the size of your BIOS chip and whether or not the newer version will physically fit. Anyone know the size of the factory Acer chip?
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    edited July 15
    Oh nice find...a friend of mine at work is actually a part-time PC builder and said he'd do the swap for me here tomorrow, so I think I'm just going to bring it in and let somebody who's done it have at it. I know it's just plug/play + add a dot of paste, but still - this is my baby now.

    I'll look in the BIOS chip size as soon as I get home, like 90min. 

    EDIT - wait, isn't this talking about x570 motherboards only? The Helios 500 has a modified 450 IIRC, not sure if this changes anything. Reading the thread now. 
  • xapimxapim Posts: 3,164ACE Pathfinder
    BurnsXL said:
    Oh nice find...a friend of mine at work is actually a part-time PC builder and said he'd do the swap for me here tomorrow, so I think I'm just going to bring it in and let somebody who's done it have at it. I know it's just plug/play + add a dot of paste, but still - this is my baby now.

    I'll look in the BIOS chip size as soon as I get home, like 90min. 

    EDIT - wait, isn't this talking about x570 motherboards only? The Helios 500 has a modified 450 IIRC, not sure if this changes anything. Reading the thread now. 
    You can either use the dot method to repaste or the spread method on laptops i always use the spread method just a thin layer its enough to make sure its all covered 


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1969145569968592/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • bobzdarbobzdar Posts: 34Member Die Hard
    BurnsXL said:
    Got my Ryzen 3700x from NewEgg today...box was absolutely beat to ***** but the insides are hopefully OK. The Helios is coming on Friday, so I'll be updating on that probably Sat morning.

    Does anybody have any real-world experience of the 2700->2700x upgrade for 1080p FPS framerates? Wondering if that's an upgrade worth making if the 3700x doesn't work. 
    Wasnt worth it to me as I could overclock the 2700 in the helios to 4.1ghz all core for gaming, and a 2700x would only do over that if less than 4 cores were loaded.
  • bobzdarbobzdar Posts: 34Member Die Hard
    Bios wise, we can just hope that their latest bios release added support. If it works, I'll be putting one in asap.
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    Cool, good to know - I saw links to this thread from outside while attempting to Google-fu directions on determining the BIOS ROM chip size. Sorry to everyone waiting, we will know tomorrow one way or the other. 

    Side note - Prime Day special I saw was the 2700x for $199, looks like it's valid through tomorrow. 

    It's embarrassing how little I know about some of this stuff, but it looks like you can't determine your BIOS ROM chip size via Windows without writing or using some kind of script in terminal? Feel like I'm missing something. 

    https://imgur.com/a/s8asc92
  • xapimxapim Posts: 3,164ACE Pathfinder
    edited July 16
    BurnsXL said:
    Cool, good to know - I saw links to this thread from outside while attempting to Google-fu directions on determining the BIOS ROM chip size. Sorry to everyone waiting, we will know tomorrow one way or the other. 

    Side note - Prime Day special I saw was the 2700x for $199, looks like it's valid through tomorrow. 

    It's embarrassing how little I know about some of this stuff, but it looks like you can't determine your BIOS ROM chip size via Windows without writing or using some kind of script in terminal? Feel like I'm missing something. 

    https://imgur.com/a/s8asc92
    I have a feeling that the only way to find out the bios chip size would be only with an spi flasher the same used to dump the bios and flash it back after someone had modded it to unlock it i might be wrong not sure


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1969145569968592/
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • NiteNinjaNiteNinja Posts: 38Member Devotee
    This bios doesn't even have a "fancy" GUI so I don't have high hopes.

    However Acer could drop the support for the 1000 series ryzen 0rocessors out of the BIOS, because honestly who would roll back.
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    Everything is here at the office, we're going to be giving it a shot in probably an hour or two..just running over the thermal paste stuff a bit more so I make sure to do it correctly. 
  • caitocaito Posts: 11Member

    Tinkerer

    edited July 16
    First off, thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience here with everyone, hope everything went smoothly and that there was some success in your endeavor.  sooo... . howd it go?  the suspense on knowing how it went with your 2700 >> 3700x swap is unbearable! LOL
    Whatever the outcome, it will DEFINITELY be very useful info for many of us wanting to do the same, and for Acer to corner the niche market of users who could benefit. BEST OF LUCK to you BurnsXL ! crossing fingers :)
  • BurnsXLBurnsXL Posts: 35Member Devotee
    edited July 16
    Sorry, I actually got caught up with work and I'm trying to confirm that it was in fact done properly. TL;DR - no, didn't work and doesn't boot.

    BUT - my friend thinks that a workaround exists in a way that goes beyond what I really understand, and I think I'm going to let him take it home for the night to see if he can work the magic. Sounds similar to what somebody mentioned earlier about using a different (desktop?) BIOS and tricking it in to thinking it's something else. If it works, AIUI, there will be some limitations because of the x450 MoBo but the gains make it more than worth it. 

    He says that from a hardware perspective there's no reason that it shouldn't work, and thus he believes he can pull it off but to not get my hopes up. 

    Wish I had better news and a better understanding of the why - maybe I will tomorrow morning but I wouldn't be spending money on this until Acer says anything had I already not. 

    Acer? Any chance of a comment here? Any chance of a BIOS update? 

    EDIT - scratch the hard no, he's been toying with it for like 15min and now believes that it will in fact work with a workaround. Let him take it home, and will report by the morning (expect it to be later tonight). 
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