egydiocoelho said:

Have you checked for a function called function key behavior in bios?

I have that option configured so that function keys are the default and alternative functions require the pressing of the Fn key. For example, the F2 key would be F2 (e.g. rename a file/folder in Windows Explorer) but disable WiFi when pressed in combination with the Fn key.

As far as I can tell they all work as expected except for the ones in the numeric block on the right of the keyboard. For example Fn+Up acts as Play/Pause or Fn+Down as Stop when I have media playing in an app, but those alternates on the keypad seem not to.

JackE said:

This is not a full size KB. If you want keypad behavior, get a separate wireless/USB keypad or a full size KB. Jack E/NJ

It is, please don't derail the thread, the implementation of the secondary function when Num Lock is engaged seems to be missing for those keys in this model.

See that attached image for example out of Acer's product page, the laptop is also known as an Aspire 5 in North America:

(mine ain't back-lit though, and the keyboard layout is Spanish, but it's the same thing.

No problem

Just checked, none of the alternate functions work in the keypad when Num Lock is on, let's see if I can make a table or something:

---

-	+	Num Lock
7 Home	8  🠹	9 PgUp
4 🠸	5	6 🠺
1 End	2  🠻	3 PgDn
0 Insert	.  Del	Enter

---

That's a bit odd but I am no artist hahaha, it's supposed to represent the keypad on the keyboard I have. Apart from the first line and the 5 and Enter keys, the rest of them have 2 symbols per key.

When Num Lock is off, the 7 / Home key acts as Home and when it's on acts as the 7, the same holds true for the rest as well, for example when it's on if I press the 6 I get a 6 and when it's off that key acts as the right arrow key.

So far so good, the problem is that the Fn key isn't performing the alternate functions when Num Lock is on in those keys. For example, if Num Lock is on and I wanted to go to the beginning of the line I'm writing pressing Fn + 7 doesn't do it, the behavior is the same as if I just pressed the key (i.e. a 7 appears in the screen).

So when Num Lock is on you lose access to Home, End, PgUp and PgDn. Insert and Del don't work either, but there are independent keys for those above on the top of the keyboard. The arrow keys are present on their own too, but right now if you want to have the keypad enabled you have to sacrifice those 4 functions and at least to me Home and End are rather useful in my day to day life.

The big problem is that the Fn key is handled by firmware usually, so it doesn't register in the OS. Think of a keylogger application for example, pressing the Fn key on its own wouldn't make it log anything, that's why the fix needs to be by means of a BIOS update probably

Yep, that's it, when NumLock is on the secondary functions should be accessible with the Fn key, so while NumLock is engaged, Fn+7 = Home.

Right now it's as if the Fn key wasn't pressed, so with NumLock on, Fn+7 = 7.

Sorry for the delay, night time in my area Just checked switching the default behavior to be media keys instead of functions, the same seems to happen:

Function key setting in BIOS, Numlock on, Fn+7 = 7
Media key setting in BIOS, Numlock on, Fn+7 = 7

Function key setting in BIOS, Fn+F7 = Disables the touchpad, it's the function drawn in the F7 key for this model.
Media key setting in BIOS, Fn+F7 = F7, whatever it does, I don't think that function key does anything on its own.

The alternative functions seem to work as expected for this model in both modes, except for the keypad ones. Well, when the BIOS setting is set to "Media keys" you'd expect the regular arrows to control playback instead of being arrows unless pressed with Fn, that doesn't seem to happen either. Not a problem for me to be honest, but breaks the consistency of the BIOS setting which could be a problem for some people.

In other words, the regular down arrow doubles as the "media stop" key, when the BIOS setting defaults to function keys that key works as the down arrow key unless pressed with Fn, in which case it stops the music or video you're playing. One would expect that happens if you press the key alone when the setting in BIOS is set to media keys by default, but it doesn't. Regardless of the BIOS setting, the regular arrow keys (the ones below the right Shift key) always act as directional arrows and only act as media keys when pressed together with the Fn key.

I'm afraid not, it's a faulty/incomplete implementation of the Fn key functionality. Even the multimedia keys (secondary option of the directional arrows) remain as directional arrows when the BIOS setting is set to "Media Key" instead of "Function Key" (of no consequence for me, since I always have the BIOS setting set as Function Key).

You had posted that screenshot before, but you're obviating the line right above the one you highlight: "If an external keyboard/keypad is present:"

Anything that follows that line, i.e. the bullet points, applies given that condition, which is not met: the laptop is being used as is with no external keyboard or keypad attached.

The result is what I've been reporting all along, because of the bug if NumLock is on (doesn't matter the BIOS setting it seems) there's no key for Home, End, PgUp and PgDown (the others don't respond either, but there are equivalent keys elsewhere in the keyboard). And I'm also afraid it's nothing we can fix ourselves, we have no access to the code that handles that since it lies in the firmware itself.

Using any kind of low level hook in Windows is useless because the Fn key doesn't register any keystroke since it's not handled by the OS, so programatically we can't detect an combination of key presses that involve the Fn key.

Only Acer would be capable of fixing this in a subsequent BIOS release, whenever that may be, but I don't know how to get in touch with them or the appropriate team to notify them

JackE said:

Yep, realize you're not using an external KB. Since I'm only an  user just like you, not an employee, my workaround for Home would be to quickly hit NumLK off. Hit 7. Hit NumLk on.  Yes a bit inconvenient for me than just FN+7. But due to the close proximity of the NumLK & Numpad keys it could probably become almost second nature to me and maybe even faster with my right thumb & index finger without even looking. Accordingly, I think I could live with it. If this is a big inconvenience for you, I suggest that you request a firmware tweak via a PM to one of the forum moderators who are ACER employees/contractors. They may have more sway in running your request up the flagpole than me. But they too can't guarantee such a request will happen anytime soon if ever. Sorry. Jack E/NJ

Thank you for your time and for everything nonetheless, it's people like you who keep the community going