Helios 300 G3-571 Undervolt Problem

asimgok
asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
edited November 2023 in 2018 Archives
So this is my problem. Whenever i undervolt my cpu from XTU or Throttlestop (in xtu it freezes at -105) more than -102.5 mV, the pc freezes during gaming or idle. I cannot move the mouse cursor or alt+tab so i shut the pc down by pressing down the power button. There is no BSOD when i open it back up and i cant see anything at event viewer except kernel error 41 (which means windows was shut down and it doesnt know why). One thing i noticed though the files at my desktop screen change their places after i manually restart the computer after these freezes. (idk if that helps)

It is mainly happening while gaming but sometimes it happens at idle aswell. People with this laptop can undervolt even more than -130 mV without any issues but i only can do -102.5 (rarely -102.5 crashes aswell). I first thought that this might be an audio driver issue bc sometimes there is a sound coming from the speakers when this happens but this happens even when i uninstall audio drivers. I also tried removing nvidia drivers and it happened again.

thanx in advance
«1

Answers

  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    All CPUs undervolt differently even if they are exactly the same type. Some CPUs can be undervolted by 130mV, others can go down to 115mV at best, so in your case you haven't won the silicon lottery. If you are with the i5-7300HQ, this undervolt isn't bad, if you are with the i7-7700HQ, then you are just unlucky.
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    my cpu is i7-7700hq and gpu is GTX 1060. i guess i am just unlucky. there is no way to fix this, right?
    then how can i decrease my temps :/ ? i have 90+ C in pubg and i have already repasted 6-7 times just to make sure i wasn't repasting wrong (with kryonaut and mx-4).  -95 mV is the best undervolt  i can do with XTU and -102.5 with throttlestop. i have thermal throttling in pubg and that really sucks :/
  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    I think you are not applying the thermal paste properly. Other users with the same laptop manage to reduce the CPU temp down to low 80 degrees celsius after repasting without undervolting. In your case you get 90+ with repasting and undervolting(+-30mV won't have much of a difference, when the voltage is set to -100mV). Have you set the fans to run at max speeds from predator sense, by the way?

    Tips: Apply as little thermal paste as possible on the CPU die, just enough to cover the CPU die with a thin layer. With MX-4 I suggest you to use the pea method(apply a little drop of thermal paste in the middle of the CPU die and please heatsink on top. Apply little pressure on the heatsink, which will spread the thermal paste around the die), as it works best for this thermal paste. When repasting with kryonaut, follow the guide that comes with the thermal paste, again you want to apply as little as possible.
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    i repasted it in case i was putting so much paste (when i opened it back up the paste was only covering the cpu and gpu and it wasnt much) i repasted it anyways with a smaller amount and the temps are still the same. :/
  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    How do you apply the thermal paste, do you spread it with a plastic card before placing the heatsink, or you used the method that I suggested?

    Have you set the fans to run at max speeds from predator sense, by the way?


    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    i tried both of the methods actually. i applied pea method once and i also tried spreading with the stick from thermal grizzly (i am using the mx-4 though). and i also tried to do cross method with pea sized thermal paste (thin cross on cpu and gpu) and the temps seem to be the same around 90+ C. i always use max fan speeds while gaming. i once changed some of the settings from XTU and throttlestop but i deleted XTU after restoring the default values and throttlestop is off now. idk maybe those settings werent applied? idk maybe a value is more than it should? i can post any screenshot if you would like to check if something is wrong with the values or any log file.

    thanx
  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    I really don't see a reason why the temperatures are still above 90C. From throttlestop make sure the voltages are set on both core and cache.



    Around an year ago there was a user that had a similar issue, but with GX-792. Even after repasting the CPU several times and undervolting it -120mV, he still got more than 90C. We couldn't find a solution to this problem and we couldn't even find what was causing it.

    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    they are the same.

    i really dont know man :/. i formatted the OS from Acer and installed fresh copy of windows 10. can that be related to this? or maybe i can format the pc again?
  • Skelomorph
    Skelomorph ACE Posts: 463 Pioneer
    There is no way you can cheat the CPU. If it can't handle an undervolt, it simply cannot and you will need to to decrease the amount you undervolt by. 

    There is a reason why Intel doesn't set the voltage that low from the beginning, because not all CPUs are stable with more limited voltages. Try lowering the undervolt to -0.90 to stop the crashing. And as ven98 said, it wont make that much of a difference having +/- 0.030 undervolt on temperatures.

    Skelo
    Please quote me so I get a notification of your reply!
    If I helped you, like my post and/or select my post as 'Solved'.
    Please put your laptop model in your signature so we can know what device you have.
    Product: Acer Predator Helios 300
    Model: G3-571
    "Don't cry because its over, smile because it happened."
    - Dr. Seuss
  • asad814
    asad814 Member Posts: 371 Seasoned Practitioner WiFi Icon
    use laptop cooler.....
  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    iamtherealappa said:
    they are the same.

    i really dont know man :/. i formatted the OS from Acer and installed fresh copy of windows 10. can that be related to this? or maybe i can format the pc again?
    Formatting the drive and re-installing windows won't and doesn't change anything, unfortunately in your case. Thermal issues are not related to OS in any way, except if something got corrupted in the OS, which eats up a lot of CPU resources for no reason, but that most likely isn't the case.

    Make sure you are not blocking the vents and you can use books or some other objects under the laptop to raise it higher for better airflow, as half of the air that is being sucked in from underneath is already hot. See if that helps.

    Can you download HWiNFO? I would like you to post both CPU and GPU max and average temperatures. 
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    edited February 2018
    i wont be home today so i cant post you now unfortunately but i ll probably post it by tomorrow. btw i already got hwinfo installed and the temps were 85-90C average and 90+ (probably 97C) max. i am not sure though. i ll post you a screenshot by tomorrow. thanx for your help.

    i want to mention one other thing though. i live in eu and the stock power cable wasnt compatible for me. i changed it with another laptops power cable without paying much attention to the Voltages. is that something important?
  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    This isn't something that can affect temperatures, actually it doesn't affect anything.
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • Queen6
    Queen6 Member Posts: 319 Skilled Practitioner WiFi Icon
    edited February 2018
    iamtherealappa said:
    my cpu is i7-7700hq and gpu is GTX 1060. i guess i am just unlucky. there is no way to fix this, right?
    then how can i decrease my temps :/ ? i have 90+ C in pubg and i have already repasted 6-7 times just to make sure i wasn't repasting wrong (with kryonaut and mx-4).  -95 mV is the best undervolt  i can do with XTU and -102.5 with throttlestop. i have thermal throttling in pubg and that really sucks :/

    Try ThrottleStop, set CPU Core & Cache at -90mV, on the main window Disable Turbo, if the game is not CPU intensive frame rates will not drop too much at all, and should make a significant difference to the CPU temperature.

    As for the cause of the problem it may be a "mechanical" issue; seating of the heat pipe/sync assembly, sealing of the fans to the heat pipe/sync assembly, dust etc. reducing the heat sync's efficiency.  Ultimately you will need to disassemble the notebook to investigate, CPU/GPU retention is very sensitive and requires that the screws are tightened gradually in turn, not tightened fully one at a time, especially if the CPU has the triangle arrangement.

    It might also be worth adding more thermal pads to the surrounding chipsets as the more heat you can transfer away from the motherboards "hot spots" the better for the cooling of the CPU/GPU.  If a shared cooling system the GPU will be factor and worth investigating, try bench testing both in isolation.

    Elevating the rear of the notebook will allow greater airflow and prevent the surface it's on reflecting heat back to the computer.

    Q-6
  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    ven98 said:
    iamtherealappa said:
    they are the same.

    i really dont know man :/. i formatted the OS from Acer and installed fresh copy of windows 10. can that be related to this? or maybe i can format the pc again?
    Formatting the drive and re-installing windows won't and doesn't change anything, unfortunately in your case. Thermal issues are not related to OS in any way, except if something got corrupted in the OS, which eats up a lot of CPU resources for no reason, but that most likely isn't the case.

    Make sure you are not blocking the vents and you can use books or some other objects under the laptop to raise it higher for better airflow, as half of the air that is being sucked in from underneath is already hot. See if that helps.

    Can you download HWiNFO? I would like you to post both CPU and GPU max and average temperatures. 

    here is a dump of my throttlestop setttings, the graph on predator sense while playing pubg and hwinfo

  • Skelomorph
    Skelomorph ACE Posts: 463 Pioneer
    Did you create a task in Task Scheduler to have it start on user login. Create the task, and use these settings on ThrottleStop and try restarting.

    Core: -0.100
    Cache: -0.100
    GPU: -0.60

    Skelo
    Please quote me so I get a notification of your reply!
    If I helped you, like my post and/or select my post as 'Solved'.
    Please put your laptop model in your signature so we can know what device you have.
    Product: Acer Predator Helios 300
    Model: G3-571
    "Don't cry because its over, smile because it happened."
    - Dr. Seuss
  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    Skelomorph said:
    Did you create a task in Task Scheduler to have it start on user login. Create the task, and use these settings on ThrottleStop and try restarting.

    Core: -0.100
    Cache: -0.100
    GPU: -0.60

    Skelo
    this did not help.
  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    when i stress test the cpu the temps never go above 69C (TS-Bench 1024m 8 cores 100% usage) but when i stress test the gpu, the temps go up to 80 or even 85C (furmark). my base clock is 1500+ which is somewhat high?

    i am thinking that maybe someone had this pc before me and he overclocked the gpu and decrypted the BIOS. i am saying this cuz once i opened BIOS randomly i saw an Advanced tab next to the existing Advanced tab like a modded BIOS (it disappeared after opening again). this leaves only one option since these BIOS's are encrypted.
  • Queen6
    Queen6 Member Posts: 319 Skilled Practitioner WiFi Icon
    edited February 2018
    iamtherealappa said:
    when i stress test the cpu the temps never go above 69C (TS-Bench 1024m 8 cores 100% usage) but when i stress test the gpu, the temps go up to 80 or even 85C (furmark). my base clock is 1500+ which is somewhat high?

    i am thinking that maybe someone had this pc before me and he overclocked the gpu and decrypted the BIOS. i am saying this cuz once i opened BIOS randomly i saw an Advanced tab next to the existing Advanced tab like a modded BIOS (it disappeared after opening again). this leaves only one option since these BIOS's are encrypted.
    The TS-Bench is not very taxing, if you want to "light up" the CPU use Prime95 and "Torture Test" the CPU with Small FFT's.  Unless the cooling solution is very solid and or any Undervolt stable you can fully expect CPU to thermally throttle or in the case of unstable Undervolt system lockup/crash.

    Furmark absolutely saturates and pushes the GPU to the max, so 85C is fairly decent, the GPU frequency I'm unsure, certainly the GTX 1070 clocks far higher with and without Turbo. It's not unheard of for manufactures to add a mild boost to the 10 series GPU's  


    Here you can see my G9-793 CPU (7700HQ) running Prime95  Small FFT's note the disparity of the temperature between cores, especially Core #2.  This is indicative of the retention force not being equal across the CPU, however this is a pretty good chip and will Undervolt stably down to as much as -143.6mV, although as a safeguard I leave the Undervolt at 133.8mV.  Under Prime95 the CPU is pulling close to the PL 1 power limit of 45W.

    Similar we can observe a significant difference in your systems CPU core temperature Core #3 @ 74C & Core #2 @ 91C, nor is the load high at 15.7W.  A 17C difference in core temperature is a lot and points to the CPU retention not being equal, and or the thermal paste not applied correctly, although I suspect the former.  I would even expect the difference to increase under massive synthetic load such as Prime95.  This is also exasperated by the CPU's characteristics of not being capable of a deeper Undervolt.

    Although not very comparative the G9-793 running TS-Bench is same at 68C, fans set to auto and only marginally exceeding 3K.  Seems to me that the efficiency of the cooling solution is lacking at the higher end of the spectrum on your notebook.  I'm not familiar with the Helios 300, equally try to release the CPU retention screws and tighten them literally turn by turn going across and around the heat-sync.  you can also look at the sealing between the fan assemblies and the heat sync as it seems at moderate load (TS-Bench) the temperature is fairly comparable.

    Note ambient temp 24C, Predator 17 was set up maximum performance, stock paste.

    Q-6
  • asimgok
    asimgok Member Posts: 20 Networker
    thank you all for your answers. i think i fixed the issue. the problem was the dust in my fans... i removed those verrry tiny screws over the fans and saw a giant dust clew. i removed that and cleaned the fans again. i repasted the cpu and gpu aaaandd voilà! the temps dont exceed 70C while playing pubg and rarely exceeds 78C while playing assassins creed origins. plus i didnt underclock it! only -102.5 undervolt. 


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