AN515-45: I'm having latency issues when using my laptop for Video djing

24

Answers

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer
    1. >>>>[vDJ] used to work on the aspire laptop even though it didnt meet the specification but started to glitch a few times a night about 3 months ago,>>>
    2. >>>wifi off>>>
    3. >>>>I have also tried my 18 month old Asus machine (which should be capable of running vdj and dex3)>>>>>similar latency issues.>>>>
    4. >>>>My second plan is to re try the Acer aspire again>>>
    5. >>> In a nut shell I now have 3 different machines of which all have latency / dpc issues with Wdf0100.sys etc.>>>
    6. >>>3hrs 15 i n no latency or dpc issues recorded today>>>
    7. >>>Today VDJ suggested I contact Acer for solutions?>>>


    I'm surprised vDJ didn't also tell you to contact ASUS to help solve their software issue . 🙂

    However, to be fair, items #1 & #6 above are troubling. They suggest some other possible intermittent factors emerged ~3 months ago that may be to blame besides vDJ software and ASUS and/or Acer hardware.

    I think we've discussed two possibilities so far. Processor overheating. Windows or other updates.

    What about the wifi? Any possibility that you're inadvertently turning it back on by accidentally tripping the F3 wireless toggle key combination? Have you tried turning off routers just to be sure?

    What about any software or Windows system timers that may be enabled?

    Any 3rd party anti-malware or new software you started using about 3 mos that might be interfering?

    Anything else that might've changed ~3mos ago?

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    Not yet looked on the old machine but factory reset nitro 5 on windows 11 removed all unnecessary software, done all the CPU throttling aspects, power management, all latest drivers, not even switched on the software and latency monitor flagged up nvlddmkm.sys 3.15 ms then dxgkrnl.sys 0.7593, Wdf0100.sys 0.2522.

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    Definately not on wifi or wired, GPU temp 35c fan 2054 CPU 53c 1775. I wonder if I should do somehting with geforce as that slides somehting in on the right but I don't select it.

    What confuses me is the issues appear on all 3 machine even the nitro which I the one I really want to resolve as djing is what I brought it for. I can't get the NVIDA kernel mode driver not to appear now, its currently 3.735ms fir execution

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer

    You should be able to simply right click on then click disable driver in Device Manager.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    juist redownloading nvidia drivers so am on the net for a short while can't get rid of the nvidia latency issue but it has come down to 2.3571ms

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer

    Out of curiosity, have you tried forcing video mixing with the integrated GPU instead? With enough RAM, some users have been amazed by how well the Radeon GPU performs relative to the discrete GPU Even better in some cases.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    Been honest JackE no was advised to " switch to the NVIDIA Geforce RTX 3060 laptop GPU," <--- use the Nvidia card. In fact you you should set windows to always use the Nvidia card for everything and disable graphics switching altogether.

    I didn't know how to disable that function and experimenting with VDJ has created a few issues.

    with VDJ I did have it set to graphics / GPU but math engine to CPU, although whilst it was playing up earlier messing about with the settings and updating the Nvidia driver it set itself back to the AMD radeon, I had switched off videouseDXVA, so the videoengine was not using hardware acceleration from the "videocard" but that impacted on the software and was visually stuttering. I've also noted that when using the second display and right click on it to see the video setting the software now strobed and stuttere but that may be linked to the VDJ settings.


    test 1 CAT:VIDEO VideoDriver set to AMD RAdeon(TM) Graphics, VideoUseDXVA on - so using hardware acceleration from the "videocard", and under performance mathengine = CPU. UselowpoerGPU set to low power

    video shows on laptop screen only can't move it to the second display as its set on right click to AMD radeon - Change this on right click to Nvidia moves to second display - latency monitor seems stable but then for some reason if I right click on the second screen software glitches

    test 2 switch performace to USEhighpower - restart video driver is now set to NVIDIA by default - latency issues 1.346ms start to appear on the NVLddmkm.sys, right click on second screen software remains stable?

    Test 3 switch performance to Uselowpower GPU =default = video driver NVIDIA second screen stable when right clicking but if I select AMD radeon it switches back to the laptop screen latency 2.867ms on nvidia kernel driver again.

    on Performance I have 3 optionsd under useLowPowerGPU default (whatever that is) Low power and high power. It suggestes for a laptop with dual GPU select if the skin and video should use the internal low power GPU or the discrete high power GPU. The low power GPU is usually enough to draw the skin ans for basic video mixing, and will make battery last longer (not an issue as I'm on mains) Use the high power GPU if your doing complicated video mixing with complex effecst or shaders (I only use standard ones)


    So the upshot is the software is more stable when using the nvidia GPU but gets latency issues, using the AMD radeon less latency issues but if I right click on the second scree for any reason the software glitches and freezes?

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    So I can only assume its a NVIDIA driver issue? which seems a bit illogical and VDJ advised me to use a Nvidia geforce graphic card,


    I was clearly told my Aceraspire was not suitable as it did nto have a seperate GPU, but the Asus might work but it was recommened that I look for an NVDIA RTX 2 or 3 series I opted for the RTX3060 (6gb) they only suggest a minimum of 4gb and the AMD was 16gb as well double their recommendation???

     

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-Vega-8-Ryzen-4000-5000-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.453150.0.html 


    "as you can see it is middle of the road and is comparable to the Nvidia GTX 1060. 

     

    I would highly recommend that you look for an Nvidia RTX 2 or 3 series instead. 

     

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-2070-Laptop-Graphics-Card.384936.0.html "

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer

    >>>I was clearly told my Aceraspire was not suitable as it did nto have a seperate GPU,>>>


    And despite what you were clearly told, you clearly know that it was in fact clearly suitable till about 3 mos ago. How much RAM did it have ? How much in the Nitro? The newer Radeons will apparently use quite a bit as shared VRAM with 16GB installed.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    the Nitro has 16gb plus 6gb on the RTX tracing back through my emails i actually Ithink the issue started around July as initially I thought it was the external hardrive.

    the aspire had 8gb


  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    the original feedback mid August before I brought the Nitro 5 interestingly other than switching WiFi off I never optimised the aspire.


    • I'm not having any issues using PCDJ Dex3.0 with the same material. <---- that software is nowhere as near advanced as ours. we require a much more robust computer for video
    • "I can esnure I only use wemix / xtendamix SD versions" <---- we require a dedicated memory card for ANY videomixing and always have. while your computer might have been ok up until now it never did meet requirements. We add features to VDJ all the time and while your computer might have been sufficient and got by previoulsy it is now not.  

    The problem is the graphics: 


    That intel graphics card (it's not even a card is a chip on the main processor) will use system memory to run graphics which will strain your system and can cause glitching especially if you have the video out set to higher resolutions

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer

    >>>>We add features to VDJ all the time and while your computer might have been sufficient and got by previoulsy it is now not. >>>

    Sounds like their tune is changing about your old ACER. Not quite sure if their added feature updates play well with the rapid fire Windows feature updates. Or vice-versa. Especially now that you seem to have 3 machines from 2 different mfrs behaving similarly.

    However we still have a Nitro with 16GB RAM Nitro + 6GB VRAM that seemed OK for 3hrs 15 mins. Something else is going on. Perhaps its free RAM and free VRAM are slowly being depleted over time. Possibly due to not being cleared/released by the vDJ software after after your selections have completed. A simple update design oversight?. It can happen.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    I have sent them the results of my test - definately its the nvidia thats creating many issues, how can I minimse that use? thats my question its more stable but of course I can't touch the second display as they VDJ starts freezing although the video will still play and sound is ok. VDJ has to be restarted but its not easy to do as everything slows down.

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    todays test - run the original Acer aspire laptop that does NOT meet the VDJ specification for video use., plays out fine, although it may glitch at some point as that's what it used to do and was the reason for replacing the laptop with a nitro 5.


    Its a little less stable playing HD videos first time issues with the directx kernel came u but starting again it worked fine for 10 minutes befor stopping the test - may be less reliable but was still working! see second report below



    Key differences with this machine and the ASUS and Acer nitro 5 OS windows 10, older version of VDJ, not optimised in ANY way for pro audio use No seperate graphic card just h=using the intel HD graphics on the i5, 8gb RAM.


    Latency monitor report below

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    CONCLUSION

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts. 

    LatencyMon has been analyzing your system for 0:40:39 (h:mm:ss) on all processors.



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    SYSTEM INFORMATION

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Computer name:                    LAPTOP-8HR29VK9

    OS version:                      Windows 10, 10.0, version 2009, build: 19043 (x64)

    Hardware:                       Aspire A515-51, Acer

    BIOS:                         V1.06

    CPU:                         GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7200U CPU @ 2.50GHz

    Logical processors:                  4

    Processor groups:                   1

    Processor group size:                 4

    RAM:                         8075 MB total



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    CPU SPEED

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Reported CPU speed (WMI):               260 MHz

    Reported CPU speed (registry):            2712 MHz


    Note: reported execution times may be calculated based on a fixed reported CPU speed. Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event.


    Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs):  742.50

    Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):  13.570648


    Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):    721.20

    Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs):    8.046330



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

     REPORTED ISRs

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal.


    Highest ISR routine execution time (µs):       238.455383

    Driver with highest ISR routine execution time:    Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation


    Highest reported total ISR routine time (%):     0.102132

    Driver with highest ISR total time:          Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation


    Total time spent in ISRs (%)             0.102147


    ISR count (execution time <250 µs):          4819994

    ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs):        0

    ISR count (execution time 500-1000 µs):        0

    ISR count (execution time 1000-2000 µs):       0

    ISR count (execution time 2000-4000 µs):       0

    ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs):         0



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    REPORTED DPCs

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    DPC routines are part of the interrupt servicing dispatch mechanism and disable the possibility for a process to utilize the CPU while it is interrupted until the DPC has finished execution.


    Highest DPC routine execution time (µs):       636.458333

    Driver with highest DPC routine execution time:    dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation


    Highest reported total DPC routine time (%):     1.640

    Driver with highest DPC total execution time:     Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation


    Total time spent in DPCs (%)             1.972503


    DPC count (execution time <250 µs):          9573799

    DPC count (execution time 250-500 µs):        0

    DPC count (execution time 500-10000 µs):       9551

    DPC count (execution time 1000-2000 µs):       0

    DPC count (execution time 2000-4000 µs):       0

    DPC count (execution time >=4000 µs):         0



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

     REPORTED HARD PAGEFAULTS

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Hard pagefaults are events that get triggered by making use of virtual memory that is not resident in RAM but backed by a memory mapped file on disk. The process of resolving the hard pagefault requires reading in the memory from disk while the process is interrupted and blocked from execution.


    NOTE: some processes were hit by hard pagefaults. If these were programs producing audio, they are likely to interrupt the audio stream resulting in dropouts, clicks and pops. Check the Processes tab to see which programs were hit.


    Process with highest pagefault count:         msmpeng.exe


    Total number of hard pagefaults            7774

    Hard pagefault count of hardest hit process:     1537

    Number of processes hit:               75



    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

     PER CPU DATA

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    CPU 0 Interrupt cycle time (s):            219.127651

    CPU 0 ISR highest execution time (µs):        218.759587

    CPU 0 ISR total execution time (s):          6.613083

    CPU 0 ISR count:                   4378865

    CPU 0 DPC highest execution time (µs):        613.255531

    CPU 0 DPC total execution time (s):          168.673921

    CPU 0 DPC count:                   8426656

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    CPU 1 Interrupt cycle time (s):            75.087217

    CPU 1 ISR highest execution time (µs):        216.165929

    CPU 1 ISR total execution time (s):          1.246109

    CPU 1 ISR count:                   166456

    CPU 1 DPC highest execution time (µs):        636.458333

    CPU 1 DPC total execution time (s):          20.650953

    CPU 1 DPC count:                   858834

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    CPU 2 Interrupt cycle time (s):            16.968645

    CPU 2 ISR highest execution time (µs):        238.455383

    CPU 2 ISR total execution time (s):          2.086581

    CPU 2 ISR count:                   272197

    CPU 2 DPC highest execution time (µs):        413.131637

    CPU 2 DPC total execution time (s):          2.944061

    CPU 2 DPC count:                   271940

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    CPU 3 Interrupt cycle time (s):            5.708183

    CPU 3 ISR highest execution time (µs):        78.307153

    CPU 3 ISR total execution time (s):          0.020664

    CPU 3 ISR count:                   2476

    CPU 3 DPC highest execution time (µs):        148.665929

    CPU 3 DPC total execution time (s):          0.186902

    CPU 3 DPC count:                   25920

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________



  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    Intersting issue - that leads me to the fact its not the laptop per se but software latency monitor running - laptop (nitro 5 doing nothing other than connected to a second screen within 32 minutes latency issueNVIDIA kernel sys driver 2.261ms. cannot think or find any solution that i've not tried before.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer

    >>>its the nvidia thats creating many issues, how can I minimse that use?>>>

    At this point, I can only comment on this part. If the nvidia control panel utility doesn't have an option for minimizing use, then it can be disabled in the Device Manager Display folder. This will force the integrated Radeon GPU and shared VRAM to be used instead. Because your nitro probably has more than 6GB RAM free to share as VRAM, the Radeon might actually last longer than the nvidia's dedicated 6GB VRAM if indeed the VRAM is being slowly depleted as you complete one selection and then start a new one.

    As mentioned earlier, I think it might be possible that vDJ isn't fully clearing or releasing the video memory after each selection. After a while, there's just not enough memory left to continue playing new selections even though Win10 & Win11 claim to be better at managing these app RAM-handling deficiencies than earlier versions. So the only way for you the user to clear RAM, is a cold or slow boot or try using a 3rd party RAM optimizer or cleaner (examples at this link) as a workaround till the software gets fixed.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    I installed wise memory optimiser the latency is 1.193ms but does flag up as an issue pretty much straight away memory in use was around 3700, 3800 mb i.e. 20% when I optimse its 19%

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    I think the problem I have its all inconsistent - the nitro 5 flags up an issue sometime very quick other times runs for a period fine. the run justt was ok for around 20 minutes memory use no higher than 26% seems to sit around 21% when optimised lowest is 19% / 20%, the same nvidia issue is the key culprit when it does have a latency issue.

    second run just running ok 12 minutes in cpy ustilisation on 3% ram between 21-23% temp range 49-70c sitting around 67. Im using the video driver - AMD radeon, and the second screen is using the nvidia gpu as I can't stop it doing that unless I want the video playout on the laptop. Saturday it was playing up after about 30 minutes so I am running a 35 minute test now monitoring fan speed, temps loading % and optimisation levels.

    36 mi nutes in the highest memory usage was 24% which optimsed down to 20% temps on CPU and GPU consistent no latency fault recorded at that point on this run.


    thanks for your continued assistance, perserverance and responses.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,184 Trailblazer

    >>>second screen is using the nvidia gpu as I can't stop it doing that unless I want the video playout on the laptop.>>>

    If nvidia is disabled in Device Manager, the Radeon should drive the 2nd screen.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Dazc1971
    Dazc1971 Member Posts: 49 Troubleshooter

    having a day off tomorrow from trying to fix it as I've got two steam locomotives to turn 180 degrees using a lorry . back in it Sunday. thanks for your help.