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How do I reduce power limit throttling and current limit throttling on my 8750H CPU?

JohnFrantzenJohnFrantzen Posts: 13Member

Tinkerer

I just recently recieved my Acer Predator Helios 500 with an i7 8750H processor and although I am extremely pleased with it in general I have noticed some CPU issues.

First I noticed the CPU thermal throttling during long gaming sessions with the fans set to auto, easy fix would of course be to just set fans to max, but at a point when I was playing with my nephews I couldn't use a headset which means the fan noise was a real issue when they were set to max.

So I decided I wanted to investigate options to improve my thermals, firstly I thought of re-pasting, but I don't want to void my warranty so I asked the retailer what it would cost to have them do it, they explained that they don't do that themselves so they'd have to send it to a third party and thus the cost would be quite steep, over $50....that just didn't feel right to me so I went ahead to research other options.

This lead me to attempt undervolting, I downloaded XTU and after some online research I think -150 is the sweet spot for this laptop.
I noticed some heavy RAM usage which I at first thought was the software, but later discovered there is an issue with this laptop where the PSAgentAdmin process will start draining all your RAM if you leave it on for a while.
The soluition was to go into Services, find the Killer Network Service and change one of the options to not do anything the first time the service fails (before that it kept trying to relaunch constantly eventually draining all the RAM).

However from the XTU software I've noticed the CPU easily Power Limit Throttles and Current Limit Throttles during load, while this might not really be a big issue at all it annoys me now that I know of it and I would very much like to know how I can reduce or even completely avoid this from happening.

Anyone know what causes it and what I can do to address it?

Here are the settings I've found give me the best benchmark score from the built-in benchmarking tool in XTU.



I did reach 4,01 GHz max processor frequency during one of the runs (I believe that was with -145 V).
It seems the default settings was automatically set to my earlier XTU settings after my laptop updated Windows earlier today, the XTU software was running when I clicked "Restart now" which I believe is why those settings were set to default or maybe there is another reason...idk :P 

On Cinebench I got a score of 1103 which I guess is....decent?

Best Answer

  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963 Pioneer
    Accepted Answer
    Acer just added boosted power package levels to the Helios 500 Predator Sense!!!

    70w!!!!





    - Hotel Hero

FAQ & Answers

  • Jack22Jack22 Posts: 391Ally


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  • JohnFrantzenJohnFrantzen Posts: 13Member

    Tinkerer

    Thanks for replying, but I guess I don't understand what you want me to see?

    I can see you undervolted your cpu core a little more than me and less on cpu cache, as that is something you can do on throttle stopper and not XTU, but you're still power limit throttling...is this how you avoid current limit throttling?

    Your Cinebench score seems really low btw, maybe you undervolted too much and/or boosted too little?

    Please explain what you want me to check as I am not familiar with these things, I just started researching it for the first time yesterday :P
  • MrGrudevMrGrudev Posts: 42Member Devotee
    Dont use both XTU and Throttlestop at the same time. Return everything on XTU to 0. Remove the ThrottleStop.ini file. Turn off your PC, turn in pack on. Then try to undervolt the CPU core and cache in the FIVR in the Throttlestop. Set SAME undervolt settings on core and cache. Mine 8750H is stable at -135 mV. I set my turbo ratio limits on 38. Sacreficing 100 Hz, which is not a big deal for that CPU I managed to maintain 3.8 Ghz on 45W power. If you dont go over 45W you will not experience power limit throttling. Otherwise the default limit is 56W for 28 seconds and the returns to 45W.

    Good luck!
  • lilendaylilenday Posts: 23Member Networker
    I also have power limit throttling with -140mv undervolt. If you want hit constant 4.0ghz without power limit throttling, I don’t think there’s a solution yet. It has to do with firmware being locked. If there’s a way to bypass it then you won’t have this problem. I don’t think anyone who has the 8750h had any success running this chip to its full potential without being power limit throttled.
  • sri369sri369 Posts: 732Member Seasoned Specialist
    @JohnFrantzen
    100% capacity run puts tremendous load on power usage and heat generation. This kind of power pulls are supported pretty much in surges for a few seconds. Some things you could do to lower temps is to adjust your FPS to the max your screen supports, and using Throttlestop to limit power to processor.
    I wouldn't bother too much about benchmark scores; if a laptop performs well to serve my needs I am good. Pushing too much towards benchmarks isn't apt either since, with the same specs, your system might be slower than someone else's.
    Put it like this... we both have exact same systems... and i have search indexer disabled. And this makes a ton of difference in benchmark results.

    To limit thermal throttling here's what I did:
    1. Increased the height of laptop base by about an inch using felt pads under four feet.
    2. Limit FPS to 60 (my screen supports 60 max).
    3. Use ThrottleStop.
    4. Use USB fan for extended heavy gaming sessions.
    Karma...
    LIKE - if helpful
    ACCEPT - if helped resolve
    This would help people who see this post in the future looking for a solution for the same issue...
  • JohnFrantzenJohnFrantzen Posts: 13Member

    Tinkerer

    MrGrudev said:
    Dont use both XTU and Throttlestop at the same time. Return everything on XTU to 0. Remove the ThrottleStop.ini file. Turn off your PC, turn in pack on. Then try to undervolt the CPU core and cache in the FIVR in the Throttlestop. Set SAME undervolt settings on core and cache. Mine 8750H is stable at -135 mV. I set my turbo ratio limits on 38. Sacreficing 100 Hz, which is not a big deal for that CPU I managed to maintain 3.8 Ghz on 45W power. If you dont go over 45W you will not experience power limit throttling. Otherwise the default limit is 56W for 28 seconds and the returns to 45W.

    Good luck!
    I'm only using XTU for now, if I really need to do something that I can't do here then I guess I will uninstall it and download Throttlestop instead, but it doesn't seem like it's necessary, just feels a bit more intimidating using that since there are so many things you can adjust and I have no idea what half of them do or how they can potentially destroy my laptop.

    My CPU seems totally stable at -150 undervolting, I will probably try -155 later when I wont mind leaving it on a 1h+ stress test, right now I wanna use it and I don't wanna do it over night or when I'm not home.

    Don't know how/where I can set my "Turbo ratio limit", but it sounds very similar to the "Maximum turbo boost limit", is it the same?

    I attempted setting both PL1 and PL2 to 45W and ran a benchmark test, it still seemed to power throttle just as often only now it mostly ran on max core frequency 3.30 GHz and power throttled down to about 2.75 GHz, while on 100W/115W settings it mostly sits around 3.55 GHz and power throttles down to around 3.12 GHz....my temps aren't an issue anymore after I fixed the problem with Killer Network Services constantly restarting.

    So I guess I'll just keep it on these settings as it just seems better to have higher power boost limit even tho it should in theory power throttle more, it seems to power throttle just as often on lower power boost limit and then it even throttles to a lower frequency as well as averaging at a lower frequency.

    I guess I'll just have to wait and hope they will give us a firmware update that increases the power limit set for the CPU or if anyone know about a video or a detailed explanation (preferably with pictures) on how to do this in the BIOS on a system like mine I would very much appreciate a link :)


  • JohnFrantzenJohnFrantzen Posts: 13Member

    Tinkerer

    sri369 said:
    @JohnFrantzen
    100% capacity run puts tremendous load on power usage and heat generation. This kind of power pulls are supported pretty much in surges for a few seconds. Some things you could do to lower temps is to adjust your FPS to the max your screen supports, and using Throttlestop to limit power to processor.
    I wouldn't bother too much about benchmark scores; if a laptop performs well to serve my needs I am good. Pushing too much towards benchmarks isn't apt either since, with the same specs, your system might be slower than someone else's.
    Put it like this... we both have exact same systems... and i have search indexer disabled. And this makes a ton of difference in benchmark results.

    To limit thermal throttling here's what I did:
    1. Increased the height of laptop base by about an inch using felt pads under four feet.
    2. Limit FPS to 60 (my screen supports 60 max).
    3. Use ThrottleStop.
    4. Use USB fan for extended heavy gaming sessions.
    I don't really have a problem with thermals and Acer Predator Helios 500 comes with G-Sync :)

    lilenday said:
    I also have power limit throttling with -140mv undervolt. If you want hit constant 4.0ghz without power limit throttling, I don’t think there’s a solution yet. It has to do with firmware being locked. If there’s a way to bypass it then you won’t have this problem. I don’t think anyone who has the 8750h had any success running this chip to its full potential without being power limit throttled.
    I think you're right, but I hope someone has managed to adjust the power limit set without changing to a self-modded BIOS :P
  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963ACE Pioneer
    edited September 4
    Power limit throttling is how these 8th gen CPUs were designed.

    I played with a MSI with a 8th gen i7 that had a package power cap of 90 but the CPU only utilized 64w and it STILL didnt break 1k cinebench. I think the package power and whatever Acer did works quite well.
    I think I managed 12XX on cinebench once?

    Anyway. The main diffrence between XTU and Throttlestop is that XTU is 40+MB in size and Throttlestop is 600kb in size. So a very light footprint.

    The BEST feature of throttlestop is the ability to adjust speed shift epp (energy performance profile) which dictates how aggressively the CPU boosts its clock speeds.
    Unfortunately Throttlestops developer hasnt been able to update his software due to lack of information released by intel. Speed shift still works but not as well as it does on the HQ CPUs.

    Overall Throttlestop will handle temps better then XTU and also with less bloat.
    - Hotel Hero
  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963ACE Pioneer
    Accepted Answer
    Acer just added boosted power package levels to the Helios 500 Predator Sense!!!

    70w!!!!





    - Hotel Hero
  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963ACE Pioneer
    edited September 12
    Legend! 😁😁😁
    - Hotel Hero
  • JohnFrantzenJohnFrantzen Posts: 13Member

    Tinkerer

    IT WORKED! =)



    I just ran windows updates which included the update to Predator Sense and restarted my laptop, I then had this option to adjust the power limit to my CPU, I set it to high (not max), applied my XTU settings and ran the built-in benchmark.

    Where it used to power throttle a lot during this benchmarking (even without any adjustments made with XTU) it now didn't power throttle ONE TIME! =) 
    THANK YOU ACER!  <3

    PS: I increased the power boost max quite high compared to what I've seen others do and while I am tempted to push it even higher as well as use the max setting on power limit for CPU, I got a notification from XTU when I applied the settings that it no longer supports the watchdog feature so if my laptop would crash...well I would not know how to fix it...not sure if it matters or not as I don't have XTU set to launch on startup, but I'd rather be on the cautious side with a machine as expensive as this one ;P
  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963ACE Pioneer
    edited September 13
    IT WORKED! =)



    I just ran windows updates which included the update to Predator Sense and restarted my laptop, I then had this option to adjust the power limit to my CPU, I set it to high (not max), applied my XTU settings and ran the built-in benchmark.

    Where it used to power throttle a lot during this benchmarking (even without any adjustments made with XTU) it now didn't power throttle ONE TIME! =) 
    THANK YOU ACER!  <3

    PS: I increased the power boost max quite high compared to what I've seen others do and while I am tempted to push it even higher as well as use the max setting on power limit for CPU, I got a notification from XTU when I applied the settings that it no longer supports the watchdog feature so if my laptop would crash...well I would not know how to fix it...not sure if it matters or not as I don't have XTU set to launch on startup, but I'd rather be on the cautious side with a machine as expensive as this one ;P

    There are 3 XTU profiles in C:/Program data/OEM/PredatorSense/"your cpu"
    You can open these and change the values to your liking although Acer did an awesome job at the limits.

    Normal: Stock TDP (45 & 56)

    Fast: Long boost at 45w
    Short boost at 70w

    Turbo: Long boost at 56w
    Short boost at 70w

    I tested increasing package power to 90w and the CPU capped itself at 71.8w. So the setting of 70w is perfect.

    On top of all that each profile has a built in -0.125 undervolt.
    I managed to change the UV to -0.150 (a good value for my laptop)
    Once I updated each profile I exported them via Profile options in XTU and named them the same as their profiles (Normal, Fast, Turbo) and saved their profiles to another folder. I then added my new UV profiles to the PredatorSense folder and now I boot with an auto UV and increased package power limits. 😁😁

    You do NOT need any undervolting software as the "XTUSERVICE" service thats run by predator sense is a small XTU executor. 

    So once I tweaked the profiles with XTU I uninstalled XTU and everything still runs perfectly!

    My Predator Sense undervolts and manages unlocked package power limits!!!

    Sttooooooked
    - Hotel Hero
  • M4rdockM4rdock Posts: 84Member Fixer
    Lol lol nice findings Sand!
    Looks like Acer engeniers are lurking here and fixed only complaint everybody had with this laptop.

    Btw. Is turbo 100% safe for cpu lifespawn?
  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963ACE Pioneer
    M4rdock said:
    Lol lol nice findings Sand!
    Looks like Acer engeniers are lurking here and fixed only complaint everybody had with this laptop.

    Btw. Is turbo 100% safe for cpu lifespawn?

    As long as temps are good then yes
    - Hotel Hero
  • sri369sri369 Posts: 732Member Seasoned Specialist
    M4rdock said:
    Btw. Is turbo 100% safe for cpu lifespawn?
    Only in bursts, and not for extended periods of time!
    Karma...
    LIKE - if helpful
    ACCEPT - if helped resolve
    This would help people who see this post in the future looking for a solution for the same issue...
  • Red-SandRed-Sand Posts: 963ACE Pioneer
    sri369 said:
    M4rdock said:
    Btw. Is turbo 100% safe for cpu lifespawn?
    Only in bursts, and not for extended periods of time!

    This is not accurate.

    In something like a game where processes change frequently you'll find your short boost clocks constantly running since they do not remain on a specific task for over a period of 28 seconds.

    Also this feature was added by Acer's engineers.. not manually done.
    - Hotel Hero
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