Acer Predator Helios 500 - Predator Sense Issue - Model : Predator PH517-51

Dear Acer

I will try to explain my issue as thorough as possible and would like an answer from you.

I currently have an issue with Predator Sense after the update from Windows 1803 ---> 1903.

Here are the steps that I take:
1. Boot Laptop
2. Wait until everything is loaded
3. Click on Predator Sense
4. Logo of Predator Sense Appears

After A while this screen appear:

The issue it that it freezes and eventually when you click on it you'll find this:

Expected behaviour:
Once the logo appears, it shows the following screen:

After some debugging I found the following things:

I also found out the following:
When the logo is booting and the screen is black, I go and look into services:

The moment I click on: Start Service. The screen pops up. I cannot read out my graphics card unfortunatly...

Do you know what is going wrong?

I have tried:
1. Reinstalling the application
2. Disabling windows and windows driver updates with WinaeroTweaker-0.14.0.0
3. Removing Predator Sense from the hidden Windows Apps folder and reinstalling the app.
4. Updating the Driver that was recommended by everyone: "Turbo Boost_Intel_1805.12.0.1097_W10x64"
5. I even tried updating my Wave drivers "Audio_Waves_1.0.31.0_W10x64" But when running the script I get the following error:

Which gives the following outcome:

When looking in the logs in the folder "C:\OEM\AcerLogs\Useralaunch.Log" I find:
"""

15/06/2019 19:54:17,85[Log START] ============

\xxxxxxx\99. PC Dokter Hasselt\xxxxxx\xxxxxx\PC Dokter Hasselt\xxxxxxx\Acer Helios 500\Drivers\Audio_Waves_1.0.31.0_W10x64\Install_UWP.cmd ============

15/06/2019 19:54:17,85[Log TRACE] dir /b *.appxbundle

4c1aab4abaaa4f81aac14cc4e712bf57.appxbundle

15/06/2019 19:54:17,90[Log TRACE] dir /b .appx

File Not Found

15/06/2019 19:54:17,94[Log TRACE] PackagePath is [4c1aab4abaaa4f81aac14cc4e712bf57.appxbundle]

15/06/2019 19:54:17,94[Log TRACE] dir /b *.xml

4c1aab4abaaa4f81aac14cc4e712bf57_License1.xml

15/06/2019 19:54:17,98[Log TRACE] LicensePath is [4c1aab4abaaa4f81aac14cc4e712bf57_License1.xml]

15/06/2019 19:54:17,98[Log TRACE] dir /b *_x86*.appx

Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx

Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx

Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx

15/06/2019 19:54:18,02[Log TRACE] Now DependencyPackage_X86 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:18,02[Log TRACE] Now DependencyPackage_X86 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:18,02[Log TRACE] Now DependencyPackage_X86 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:18,03[Log TRACE] dir /b *_x64*.appx

Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx

Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx

Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx

15/06/2019 19:54:18,07[Log TRACE] Now DependencyPackage_X64 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:18,07[Log TRACE] Now DependencyPackage_X64 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:18,07[Log TRACE] Now DependencyPackage_X64 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:18,07[Log TRACE] Merge _x86.appx and _x64.appx For X64

15/06/2019 19:54:18,07[Log TRACE] After merge DependencyPackage_X64 is [/dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" ]

15/06/2019 19:54:17,85[Log TRACE] dism /online /english /add-provisionedappxpackage /packagepath:"4c1aab4abaaa4f81aac14cc4e712bf57.appxbundle" /licensepath:"4c1aab4abaaa4f81aac14cc4e712bf57_License1.xml" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Framework.1.3_1.3.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.NET.Native.Runtime.1.4_1.4.24201.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx" /dependencypackagepath:"Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.25426.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.appx"

Error: 740

Elevated permissions are required to run DISM.

"""
Even though I ran it in administrator mode??? The same log also mentioned:
"""

The DISM log file can be found at C:\WINDOWS\Logs\DISM\dism.log

15/06/2019 21:01:55,67[Log TRACE] got return code [183]

15/06/2019 21:01:55,67[Log TRACE] Return code is [183], reboot and re-install.

15/06/2019 21:01:55,67[Log TRACE] acerReboot.exe with timeout 10 and Pause

'acerReboot.exe' is not recognized as an internal or external command,

operable program or batch file.

""" (Bad written code? Forgot to add something to the Path variable?)

I am kind out of options here. I use this PC for production and need a solution fast. I have a lot of gaming clients and need to solve this so I can start giving support to clients instead of my own laptop.

Has anyone ever encountered this / has a solution to this? I think I need some official support from Acer to take a look at this. The software on the support portal is not working.

Greetings

PC Dokter Hasselt

Accepted answers

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

xapim said:

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/558409/fix-for-predator-sense-failing-to-open-on-windows-10#latest

I tried resetting the performance counters as well but that did not solve the issue.

After a lot of debugging and looking into code I finally found how to fix it:

De-install all software from apps in windows 10
Go to predator sense windows app folder and manually remove these folders (including the one under Program Files\WindowsApps\Predatorsensexxxxxxxx)

Go to Battery settings and click on "Choose what power buttons do"

Now click on the blue text "Change settings that are currently unavailable" and disable fastboot

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029997/uploads/editor/0c/qdvk6uuzwjjk.png

After you have done this, reinstall Predator Sense as you would do normally. Do not start the application after install and immediately reboot.

The application should be working like a charm. I found that by going into sleep mode or when fastboot kicked in, some "things" were not starting in windows, causing predator sense not Being able to perform the lookup. This issue was never present in 1803 but is in 1903.

I have contacted Microsoft and debugged with them for 4 hours. In case someone wants to reference it, here is the ticket : SRX1474757334ID
I think Acer needs to have a look at this and see why this is happening. Fastboot is a very good function and I would not like to lose it.

PS: The issue about Waves is not solved yet.

Greetings

PC Dokter Hasselt

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

I have done some further debugging and found that there is a background process installing new ACER drivers on boot.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029997/uploads/editor/nt/wsctiwwb3i2s.png

This is currently how I solved it:

1. Uninstall all Predator Sense programs (The service and the Windows App) through Revo uninstaller or through https://support.microsoft.com/en-ph/help/17588/windows-fix-problems-that-block-programs-being-installed-or-removed

2. Reboot

3. Reinstall Predator Sense
3a. DO NOT OPEN PREDATOR SENSE!!!

4. Open Task Scheduler and remove the following task: (do not disable it, it will re-enable itself somehow)
(Also you cannot delete it beforehand because whenever you run any ACER install, this task scheduler event will be recreated)

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029997/uploads/editor/1y/2c5j1jhs6enn.png

5. Enjoy no more crashes after you reboot your system.

Currently, this is working fine for me for several hours. In case the issue persists, I will find the solution to this! Will comment back in case it has been solved permanently.

Greeting

PC Dokter Hasselt

All comments

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

I must also mention that when I install the software, Predator Sense works fine. The moment I reboot and then try to open Predator Sense again, Predator Sensedoesn't work anymore.

(I was going to edit original post, but couldn't see the edit button)

xapim

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/558409/fix-for-predator-sense-failing-to-open-on-windows-10#latest

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

xapim said:

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/558409/fix-for-predator-sense-failing-to-open-on-windows-10#latest

I tried resetting the performance counters as well but that did not solve the issue.

After a lot of debugging and looking into code I finally found how to fix it:

De-install all software from apps in windows 10
Go to predator sense windows app folder and manually remove these folders (including the one under Program Files\WindowsApps\Predatorsensexxxxxxxx)

Go to Battery settings and click on "Choose what power buttons do"

Now click on the blue text "Change settings that are currently unavailable" and disable fastboot

After you have done this, reinstall Predator Sense as you would do normally. Do not start the application after install and immediately reboot.

The application should be working like a charm. I found that by going into sleep mode or when fastboot kicked in, some "things" were not starting in windows, causing predator sense not Being able to perform the lookup. This issue was never present in 1803 but is in 1903.

I have contacted Microsoft and debugged with them for 4 hours. In case someone wants to reference it, here is the ticket : SRX1474757334ID
I think Acer needs to have a look at this and see why this is happening. Fastboot is a very good function and I would not like to lose it.

PS: The issue about Waves is not solved yet.

Greetings

PC Dokter Hasselt

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

Well, I celebrated too early. It only solved it for a couple of hours, now the application is dead again....

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

I ended up going into the Microsoft Store, settings and disabling "automatic app updates".

Works like a charm. will update in 24 hours if this is still the case.

xapim

Yes most of the times the fast startup and the sleep mode screws up everything its a really useless function on gaming laptops in my view and always one of the first steps to take when issues arise also windows updates in my view 99% screw up everything i had mine disable permanently via regedit since the 1809 came out first time never updated again never had any issues and if any arises i will update whatever i need manually not via windows updates i already shared my reg files to enable/disable windows 10 updates here in some threads

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

Okay, at least I have found the culprit, now we just need to solve it. The suggestion about the performance counters got me thinking and looking into the registry.

In total I had 5 errors showing up:
Unable to open the Server service performance object. The first four bytes (DWORD) of the Data section contains the status code.

Unable to open the job object \BaseNamedObjects\WmiProviderSubSystemHostJob for query access. The calling process may not have permission to open this job. The first four bytes (DWORD) of the Data section contains the status code.

The Open procedure for service "WmiApRpl" in DLL "C:\WINDOWS\system32\wbem\wmiaprpl.dll" failed with error code The device is not ready.. Performance data for this service will not be available.

The Open procedure for service "ESENT" in DLL "C:\WINDOWS\system32\esentprf.dll" failed with error code Access is denied.. Performance data for this service will not be available.

The Open procedure for service "Lsa" in DLL "C:\Windows\System32\Secur32.dll" failed with error code Access is denied.. Performance data for this service will not be available.

When looking into the registry under: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services

I found the services that had the issue.

When you right click on the key for "WmiApRpl", "ESENT", "Lsa" and click permission, you will see for some of them, permissions are missing.
Add the following group to it with 'read' permissions:
ALL APPLICATION PACKAGES

Give them read permissions.
Also give read permissions to Creator Owner.

Now I only have 3 more errors showing.

I think the culprit is the following message:
Unable to open the Server service performance object. The first four bytes (DWORD) of the Data section contains the status code.

For some reason the Predator Sense application does not have permissions to restart this service, because of the access "denied" it just crashes because it is an unhandeled exception.
What Acer needs to do is integrate and see if the service is running, and not stop it (because they do not have permission to do it.)

don't have time left to debug further but when I google these specific issues I find that it is mostly because of a bad update. Both Microsoft and Acer have to look at this.

xapim

Usually its MS fault and their mostly useless updates

mine has been working fine sice the i fixed the perfmon counters before it would only detect the gpu temps if i would reset the laptop battery pinhole now works fine everytime

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

I saw that during startup it tries to install other drivers for Predator Sense (maybe Acer care center ahs something to do with it?)
I also removed the "upgradetool" from the windows apps folder of Predator Sense, see if that helps.

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

I have done some further debugging and found that there is a background process installing new ACER drivers on boot.

This is currently how I solved it:

1. Uninstall all Predator Sense programs (The service and the Windows App) through Revo uninstaller or through https://support.microsoft.com/en-ph/help/17588/windows-fix-problems-that-block-programs-being-installed-or-removed

2. Reboot

3. Reinstall Predator Sense
3a. DO NOT OPEN PREDATOR SENSE!!!

4. Open Task Scheduler and remove the following task: (do not disable it, it will re-enable itself somehow)
(Also you cannot delete it beforehand because whenever you run any ACER install, this task scheduler event will be recreated)

5. Enjoy no more crashes after you reboot your system.

Currently, this is working fine for me for several hours. In case the issue persists, I will find the solution to this! Will comment back in case it has been solved permanently.

Greeting

PC Dokter Hasselt

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

Want to say, that in fact, the issue is still resolved and has not returned.

I think Acer automatically installs the latest Predator Sense available from their marketplace, but it is not compatible with your gear. This causes the Predator Sense not to boot. (The service actually)

For me this issue is permanently solved.

Greetings

PC Dokter Hasselt

xapim

PC_Dokter_Hasselt said:

Want to say, that in fact, the issue is still resolved and has not returned.

I think Acer automatically installs the latest Predator Sense available from their marketplace, but it is not compatible with your gear. This causes the Predator Sense not to boot. (The service actually)

For me this issue is permanently solved.

Greetings

PC Dokter Hasselt

Great news hopefully this thread will also help many others with the same issue

PC_Dokter_Hasselt

Yip, just checked in the morning and it is working fine. No issues and no driver installs. Performance counters warnings stay but the software is working fine