Why do you throttle me so? :(

Hazmat07
Hazmat07 Member Posts: 16

Tinkerer
edited November 2023 in 2018 Archives
Need some help with this power throttling, it gets really annoying when my frames drop and I get severe dips in performance. Is this just another thing acer did to help limit temps or is there a way to get around this? Running the helios 300 with i7-8750, and the gtx 1060 both cpu cpu cache and graphics card are all undervotled to -150, with the short turbo boost off completely. 

Best Answer

  • Red-Sand
    Red-Sand ACE Posts: 1,892 Pathfinder
    edited October 2018 Answer ✓
    Ok..

    So power limit throttling has nothing to do with the power brick. Let me explain.

    Your CPU (i7-8750H) has two power limits built into the CPU chip.
    One is 56w and the other is 45w.

    When your CPU is using 56w it has a 28 second time window if the CPU is given a SINGLE task over a period of time. Normally for this CPU at 56w it means you will have roughly 3.8-3.9GHz clock speeds when running the CPU at full speed for 28 seconds (Single task).
    Then after 28 seconds you will hit PL (Power Limit) which it then reverts to 45w for the remainder if that task.

    SO.. if your running a CPU benchmark you will run at 56w (3.9GHz) for 28 seconds of that test and then slow down to 45w after that timer is done for the remainder of that benchmark.

    Those power limits (56w & 45w) are what power throttling is.

    Now let me ease your mind about performance.

    Like I said before when given a SINGLE task this is how your CPU operates so the loss in CPU clock speeds only happens when for example: 
    1. Running a benchmark
    2. Rendering a large video/file
    Etc

    When your gaming or otherwise using normal Windows functions or programs, the task changes a lot very frequently... so you never hit that 28 second power limit window.

    If you were to set a on screen display showing CPU speeds while you played a game you will notice 3.9GHz to 4.0GHz all the time with dips only for certain screens where the CPU isn't needed.

    Intel has designed these CPUs to operate like this because it is not normal for someone to purchase a laptop for large rendering or processing of files etc. So to help reduce thermal throttling these power limits are in place.

    Note: Your getting those spikes because benchmarks such as XTU's are designed to spike the maximum power (w) to your chip to stress performance and stability (it's an overclocking tool afterall). These spikes being slammed into your processor cause the temp spikes because the thermal sensors for the chip are based on voltage and temps. So you could say these spikes aren't accurate as they are reading voltage spike as well.
    Also.. you would notice with an on screen display that while gaming you will never hit these power limits and will stay around 28w - 36w while operating anyway.. again the benchmark isn't real life accurate.

    Now for the fix:
    You said you undervolted to -0.150
    This is too low for this chip. Too low of an undervolt on the 8th gen CPUs causes temp increases. (IDK why)
    Instead use -0.140 for both core & cache.

    Then follow this video to remove background processes of Windows services and apply these methods also to programs you've installed yourself.
    You should try to maintain 0-1% CPU idle when no programs are running.

    https://youtu.be/XTPMwQKlfPE
    - Hotel Hero

Answers

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 44,868 Trailblazer
    You shouldn't be getting throttling till about 95*C. Assuming a max performance power plan plugged in with a fullish battery, how many watts is your power supply rated at? Jack E/NJ

    Jack E/NJ

  • sri369
    sri369 ACE Posts: 2,763 Pathfinder
    Hazmat07 said:
    Need some help with this power throttling, it gets really annoying when my frames drop and I get severe dips in performance. Is this just another thing acer did to help limit temps or is there a way to get around this? Running the helios 300 with i7-8750, and the gtx 1060 both cpu cpu cache and graphics card are all undervotled to -150, with the short turbo boost off completely. 
    Seems like an isolated issue - I was playing games on mine and many here have temps going to low 90s without throttling (before applying any under volting).
    Also, most importantly, throttling can be done a reason other than temperatures - power supplied. When on battery power it would be throttled when pulling more than the rated supply of battery.
    Are you doing this connected to power supply?
    Disable under volting completely and see if the throttling is coming up still.
    -----
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  • Hazmat07
    Hazmat07 Member Posts: 16

    Tinkerer
    edited November 2018
    JackE said:
    You shouldn't be getting throttling till about 95*C. Assuming a max performance power plan plugged in with a fullish battery, how many watts is your power supply rated at? Jack E/NJ
    Yup using full performance mode plugged in with a full battery. I couldnt find wattage on the power supply itself but according to acers website the power supply should be rated at 180w. Heres a picture of the power supply as well. 

    Model : ADP-180MB K 
    INPUT : 100-200 ~ 2,34 A  50-60 hz
    OUTPUT : 19.5V --- 9.23 A 
    (Edited by Acer-Harvey)
     


    sri369 said:
    Hazmat07 said:
    Need some help with this power throttling, it gets really annoying when my frames drop and I get severe dips in performance. Is this just another thing acer did to help limit temps or is there a way to get around this? Running the helios 300 with i7-8750, and the gtx 1060 both cpu cpu cache and graphics card are all undervotled to -150, with the short turbo boost off completely. 
    Seems like an isolated issue - I was playing games on mine and many here have temps going to low 90s without throttling (before applying any under volting).
    Also, most importantly, throttling can be done a reason other than temperatures - power supplied. When on battery power it would be throttled when pulling more than the rated supply of battery.
    Are you doing this connected to power supply?
    Disable under volting completely  different and see if the throttling is coming up still.
    I'll do some experimenting later with the idea. I dont understand how removing the under volt would prevent power throttling if I've already removed some power from the situation how would adding more power back, make the situation any better? My original reason for the undervolt was for temps. Yes this was all done while connected to power. 
  • Hazmat07
    Hazmat07 Member Posts: 16

    Tinkerer
    I found a wattage calculator and it is rated at 180w


  • sri369
    sri369 ACE Posts: 2,763 Pathfinder
    Hazmat07 said:
      I dont understand how removing the under volt would prevent power throttling if I've already removed some power from the situation how would adding more power back, make the situation any better?
    Power throttling... when processor is given less power than is needed to do necessary work, it clamps itself to slower speeds to make itself work with the reduced power.
    -----
    Karma...
    LIKE - if helpful
    ACCEPT - if helped resolve
  • Hazmat07
    Hazmat07 Member Posts: 16

    Tinkerer
    sri369 said:
    Hazmat07 said:
      I dont understand how removing the under volt would prevent power throttling if I've already removed some power from the situation how would adding more power back, make the situation any better?
    Power throttling... when processor is given less power than is needed to do necessary work, it clamps itself to slower speeds to make itself work with the reduced power.
    Ahhh I see I wondered if that was the case after I made the post. So a higher undervolt isnt neccisarily a good thing. I tried to play for a little bit at normal settings and it seemed to do pretty well a few power throttle spikes and a few thermal throttles spikes which is weird cause max core temp on one of my cores was only 87? And package max temp was only 89.
  • Red-Sand
    Red-Sand ACE Posts: 1,892 Pathfinder
    edited October 2018 Answer ✓
    Ok..

    So power limit throttling has nothing to do with the power brick. Let me explain.

    Your CPU (i7-8750H) has two power limits built into the CPU chip.
    One is 56w and the other is 45w.

    When your CPU is using 56w it has a 28 second time window if the CPU is given a SINGLE task over a period of time. Normally for this CPU at 56w it means you will have roughly 3.8-3.9GHz clock speeds when running the CPU at full speed for 28 seconds (Single task).
    Then after 28 seconds you will hit PL (Power Limit) which it then reverts to 45w for the remainder if that task.

    SO.. if your running a CPU benchmark you will run at 56w (3.9GHz) for 28 seconds of that test and then slow down to 45w after that timer is done for the remainder of that benchmark.

    Those power limits (56w & 45w) are what power throttling is.

    Now let me ease your mind about performance.

    Like I said before when given a SINGLE task this is how your CPU operates so the loss in CPU clock speeds only happens when for example: 
    1. Running a benchmark
    2. Rendering a large video/file
    Etc

    When your gaming or otherwise using normal Windows functions or programs, the task changes a lot very frequently... so you never hit that 28 second power limit window.

    If you were to set a on screen display showing CPU speeds while you played a game you will notice 3.9GHz to 4.0GHz all the time with dips only for certain screens where the CPU isn't needed.

    Intel has designed these CPUs to operate like this because it is not normal for someone to purchase a laptop for large rendering or processing of files etc. So to help reduce thermal throttling these power limits are in place.

    Note: Your getting those spikes because benchmarks such as XTU's are designed to spike the maximum power (w) to your chip to stress performance and stability (it's an overclocking tool afterall). These spikes being slammed into your processor cause the temp spikes because the thermal sensors for the chip are based on voltage and temps. So you could say these spikes aren't accurate as they are reading voltage spike as well.
    Also.. you would notice with an on screen display that while gaming you will never hit these power limits and will stay around 28w - 36w while operating anyway.. again the benchmark isn't real life accurate.

    Now for the fix:
    You said you undervolted to -0.150
    This is too low for this chip. Too low of an undervolt on the 8th gen CPUs causes temp increases. (IDK why)
    Instead use -0.140 for both core & cache.

    Then follow this video to remove background processes of Windows services and apply these methods also to programs you've installed yourself.
    You should try to maintain 0-1% CPU idle when no programs are running.

    https://youtu.be/XTPMwQKlfPE
    - Hotel Hero
  • Hazmat07
    Hazmat07 Member Posts: 16

    Tinkerer
    edited October 2018
    I kept xtu monitors running while I played a game called parkasaurus, neither screen shot provided was of a benchmark test. The orange line through the middle is my cpu hz, it normally maintains 3.6-3.8hz while gaming. Heres a picture of a benchmark using cinebench, where you can see the orange line drop showing a reduction in cpu hz resulting in about 2.8hz 
    I'll definately go through and optimize those windows programs though.
  • Red-Sand
    Red-Sand ACE Posts: 1,892 Pathfinder
    If your CPU doesn't need to run at max speeds it won't. 

    My CPU uses about 40% CPU speeds normally unless its a seriously demanding game.
    - Hotel Hero

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