Predator Helios Neo 16 i9-14900HX-after update to Win11 24H2-CPU-boiling abnormally hot while idle.

2

Answers

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    After a cold reboot?

    Jack E/NJ

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon

    Didn't do cold reboot, just made sure everything is deleted, including drivers.

    After reinstalling Windows Update downloaded some drivers again, which proves the system was clean of them.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    OK. If you tap F2 on startup to get to the BIOS menu, the fans should initially switch to high speed and be noisy. After a few moments the fans should slow down and be barely audible. Do the fans remain quiet if you stay in the BIOS menu for about 15 minutes?

    Jack E/NJ

  • Rammstein
    Rammstein Member Posts: 6 New User

    oh wow its a persistant problem this then! im out of ideas until i get my machine. are you on the latest bios? i know that they released a new one in the last few days in december

  • Rammstein
    Rammstein Member Posts: 6 New User

    im wondering also if a bios reset might help https://community.acer.com/en/kb/articles/98-reset-bios-or-uefi-to-default-settings

    the instructions refer to holding the power button down for 10 seconds i believe this is while the pc is on. so you will essentially be force shutting windows. hope this might help if you are already on the latest bios update. i appreciate i may be clutching at straws here but i really want to help you if i can.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    The 10-sec trick is claimed to be equivalent to physically disconnecting the main battery from the mainboard, but not the RTC Li coin cell. Worth a try though. It still would be interesting to see if the fans remain quiet for an extended period in the BIOS menu. This would then suggest an OS software/driver issue, not hardware.

    Jack E/NJ

  • eGomes
    eGomes Member Posts: 4,560 Guru
    edited December 19

    Hi,

    I've had numerous problems with Windows 11 keeping high CPU temps and FANs at maximum speed. In Task Manager (taskmgr.exe) and Resource Monitor (Resmon.exe) it wasn't possible to identify any processes and/or services that were consuming system resources.

    So it turned out that memory compression was the culprit! And after disabling it, my problems were solved:

    Enable or Disable Memory Compression in Windows 10 and Windows 11

    Other's possible culprits, are:

    • Copilot;
    • Driver device issue (Bluetooth, LAN, WLAN, etc);
    • Disable ULPS (Ultra Low Power State) mode to improve the performance of the graphics controller (GPU) and gain a few more FPS while playing your games;
    • Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime (outdated);
    • MS Edge (fast startup or extension);
    • .NET Runtime Optimization Service precompiling assemblies in the background (mscorsvw.exe);
    • Opera GX;
    • Windows Defender (WdFilter.sys);
    • Windows Search (SearchHost.exe);
    • Widgets (Windows Web Experience Pack).

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon

    @JackE Ok, I will check the fans, though they are working correctly and adequately in Windows on auto, so I'm not sure what are you expecting to see.

    @Rammstein I always update BIOS immediately after it comes out, especially when there are certain issues with Intel gen 13 and 14 CPUs. After each update there is some kind of BIOS reset, so not sure if this will change anything considering the latest update was about 2 weeks ago.

    @eGomes thanks but I don't see here anything relevant to my case. There are some core Windows processes that are necessary for the system and some other things that never even were in my system or were immediately disabled (like Opera or Copilot). Regarding memory compression - again, not relevant in my case. Memory compression manages virtual memory, i.e. paging file. And it's essentially disabled in my system. Well, it is currently 16 Mb and theoretically I allow it to expand to 2 Gb, however, as I have 32 Gb of RAM in my system it never expands and always stays at 16 Mb. Thus Memory compression has nothing to manage and can't have any performance impact.

  • eGomes
    eGomes Member Posts: 4,560 Guru
    edited December 19

    @Faust wrote:

    "Regarding memory compression - again, not relevant in my case. Memory compression manages virtual memory, i.e. paging file."

    Memory compression isn't just restricted to the paging file (pagefile.sys). Data stored in RAM will also be compressed. This can generate additional processing load on the CPU.

    You can try using the Process Explorer and LatencyMon tools to identify possible I/O storms or excessive DPCs.

    Another possibility could be an outdated CPU microcode or CSME. Intel has made new updates available to correct security flaws and perhaps introduced optimizations for the operation of these processors in Windows 24H2.

    CPU-Z and HWiNFO will be able to confirm the MCU version your Predator laptop is using.

    See also:

    Intel® Converged Security and Management Engine Version Detection Tool (Intel® CSMEVDT)

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon

    ^Ok, thanks, I will also try the memory compression trick, just to be sure.

    I believe 1.14 BIOS version included the new MCU from Intel. But that MCU created problems of a different kind, not related to what I'm experiencing.

    Also wondering how many real users of this particular laptop are in this thread (except from Rammstein who is still waiting). Would love to hear about their experiences with idle CPU frequencies.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    > >I'm not sure what are you expecting to see.> >

    Nothing. If no coolant leak that would cause CPU to overheat, then fans should remain quiet outside of the Windows software environment. But if CPU starts to overheat, fans will ramp up again while still inside the BIOS firmware environment.

    > >I always update BIOS immediately after it comes out,> >

    Not necessarily a good practice if no issues. Firmware updates often address problems specific to unannounced factory hardware changes in later production releases. They may cause unexpected side-effects in earlier releases. Rule of thumb — If no problems with existing firmware, don't try to fix it. 🙂

    Jack E/NJ

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon

    But the WERE problems :) And serious ones, though less relevant for laptops (MCU). I was updating just waiting for the Acer solution, which came with 1.14.

    I got 1.15 with Windows updates, just didn't notice it on the list. I agree this one isn't necessary at all.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    > >But the WERE problems :) > >

    Yes. That's why it'll be good to see whether or not the problem manifests and fans ramp up inside the BIOS firmware environment alone. If not, then we can be nearly but not quite 100% sure that it's not firmware or hardware. Then look elsewhere inside the Window environment.

    Jack E/NJ

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon

    @eGomes I have tried turning memory compression off, this had no effect.

    @JackE the fans worked on the same speed for the whole 15 minutes. See numbers below. And this is the first time I've seen CPU frequency below 4000 lol

  • eGomes
    eGomes Member Posts: 4,560 Guru
    edited December 19

    Is your SKC3000S/1024G SSD using the latest firmware version available?

    Kingston has released a revision that corrects the following problem:

    Firmware Rev. EIFK31.7 (07-08-2024)
    • Improved decoding flow to prevent excessive latency found on certain platforms.

    As described in the changelog above, we can consider that this latency issue in the SSD controller may be keeping the processor's PCIe lanes destined for the NVMe interface "busy" for long periods. And consequently, generating greater thermal dissipation (even when idle).

    Use the Kingston SSD Manager tool to confirm this:

    https://www.kingston.com/en/support/technical/ksm-firmware-update

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    CPU seems too warm for doing virtually nothing other than initializing some i/o devices, running firmware & display, even at 2GHz. Fans should've already backed down to <2000 rpm after a few moments. Thermal modules seem to be sealed coolant tube style with radiators in fan compartments. I'm gonna guess coolant leak. Is is still under warranty?

    Jack E/NJ

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon

    @eGomes I have the latest firmware

    @JackE This is a liquid metal system. Any leak would mean insta-death for the system, so I don't believe it's the case. The problem is the frequency, the frequency is the reason for the high temp, not vice-versa.

  • Faust
    Faust Member Posts: 36 Devotee WiFi Icon
    Answer ✓

    Ok, I found the reason.

    Looks like some bugged Custom power plan that somehow appeared in my Win11 installation. Called "Custom plan 1" and I'm sure I didn't create it.

    I've changed it to "balance" power plan just for the test and this "Custom plan 1" simply disappeared! I have no other power plans currently.

    Most importantly, at last I see my CPU behaving adequately, it adjust frequencies as it should, ranging from around 800 Mhz.

    Thank to everyone who tried to help. Looks like some Windows glitch unrelated to the hardware.

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    Congratulations on your success! Thanks for reporting back. 🙂

    Jack E/NJ

  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 45,080 Trailblazer

    I wonder if somehow this also changed the BIOS firmware CPU behavior on a cold reboot? The fans should still ramp down after an initial surge.

    Jack E/NJ