Are we getting Nvidia Resizable BAR Support? Predator PO3-620

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  • Zouri
    Zouri Member Posts: 22 Troubleshooter
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    GMS2K said:
    Don´t waste your time. I did several tests with my RTX 3070 in another environment with MSI Board B550 chipset, PCIe 4.0 and Ryzen 5800X, activated resizable bar. What i have compared: Zotac AMP HOLO RB enabled VBIOS, Zotac TWIN EDGE OC RB enabled VBIOS and the original VBIOS RB disabled. Result in 3DMARK TIME SPY and PORT ROYAL: The original VBIOS is beating both Zotac VBIOS, always the winner.

    I think that there won't be a BIOS update due to the wide spread of OEM manufacturers, Acer would have to release too many variants.

    George
    Interesting.
  • girtsj
    girtsj Member Posts: 5

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    Just like Engineer007, I used ZOTAC update tool for my 3070. You can find it here: 
    https://www.zotac.com/us/files/download/by_product?p_nid=959406&driver_type=238&os=All
    ACER uses the PCB from Zotac Twin Edge so there should be no risk of it malfunction with ZOTAC bios. Same clocks. Same power limits. Literally same card in disguise. The only difference is that ZOTAC card has 2x 8pin instead of 1x8 and 1x6 pin found on ACER. Gimmick from ZOTAC as card is 240w max. ACER configuration with PCIE slot plus 1x6 and 1x8 pin could already provide with 300w if needed.
    Also one would think that ZOTAC update tool would not execute the flash on unsupported cards. Surely there should be some checks in place. I had 3090 FE installed in system at the time of flash and it did not try to flash that lol.
    So to recap I think in my humble opinion that it is safe to do if You are after resizable bar but potentially void warranty. 
    I am mining with my card so I can't speak about performance differences or benchmark scores. I did it for fan curve. I like that gpu can stop fans if it is not under load. With ACER bios it was at 36% minimum. Additionally, there seemed to be something wrong with reporting fan speed. It was reporting 36% at around 55c while mining, which seems low. Set target temp is 60. After update it is 55% at 60c which seems to be more close to reality. Reported power consumption is different, too. Like +10w. Have not compared actual draw from the wall yet, though. 
    To summarize.. Try it out if You wish and feel comfortable of doing so. I prefer ZOTAC BIOS configuration myself mainly because of fan settings. Be sure to save original BIOS before flashing in case You want to revert back!

  • erikoinenpurnukka
    erikoinenpurnukka Member Posts: 2 New User
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    girtsj said:
    Just like Engineer007, I used ZOTAC update tool for my 3070. You can find it here: 
    https://www.zotac.com/us/files/download/by_product?p_nid=959406&driver_type=238&os=All
    ACER uses the PCB from Zotac Twin Edge so there should be no risk of it malfunction with ZOTAC bios. Same clocks. Same power limits. Literally same card in disguise. The only difference is that ZOTAC card has 2x 8pin instead of 1x8 and 1x6 pin found on ACER. Gimmick from ZOTAC as card is 240w max. ACER configuration with PCIE slot plus 1x6 and 1x8 pin could already provide with 300w if needed.
    Also one would think that ZOTAC update tool would not execute the flash on unsupported cards. Surely there should be some checks in place. I had 3090 FE installed in system at the time of flash and it did not try to flash that lol.
    So to recap I think in my humble opinion that it is safe to do if You are after resizable bar but potentially void warranty. 
    I am mining with my card so I can't speak about performance differences or benchmark scores. I did it for fan curve. I like that gpu can stop fans if it is not under load. With ACER bios it was at 36% minimum. Additionally, there seemed to be something wrong with reporting fan speed. It was reporting 36% at around 55c while mining, which seems low. Set target temp is 60. After update it is 55% at 60c which seems to be more close to reality. Reported power consumption is different, too. Like +10w. Have not compared actual draw from the wall yet, though. 
    To summarize.. Try it out if You wish and feel comfortable of doing so. I prefer ZOTAC BIOS configuration myself mainly because of fan settings. Be sure to save original BIOS before flashing in case You want to revert back!

    Just have to comment that the link shows a general page with no download links, saying, "ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3070 Twin Edge, No Result Found."
  • girtsj
    girtsj Member Posts: 5

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    edited January 2022
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    girtsj said:
    Just like Engineer007, I used ZOTAC update tool for my 3070. You can find it here: 
    https://www.zotac.com/us/files/download/by_product?p_nid=959406&driver_type=238&os=All
    ACER uses the PCB from Zotac Twin Edge so there should be no risk of it malfunction with ZOTAC bios. Same clocks. Same power limits. Literally same card in disguise. The only difference is that ZOTAC card has 2x 8pin instead of 1x8 and 1x6 pin found on ACER. Gimmick from ZOTAC as card is 240w max. ACER configuration with PCIE slot plus 1x6 and 1x8 pin could already provide with 300w if needed.
    Also one would think that ZOTAC update tool would not execute the flash on unsupported cards. Surely there should be some checks in place. I had 3090 FE installed in system at the time of flash and it did not try to flash that lol.
    So to recap I think in my humble opinion that it is safe to do if You are after resizable bar but potentially void warranty. 
    I am mining with my card so I can't speak about performance differences or benchmark scores. I did it for fan curve. I like that gpu can stop fans if it is not under load. With ACER bios it was at 36% minimum. Additionally, there seemed to be something wrong with reporting fan speed. It was reporting 36% at around 55c while mining, which seems low. Set target temp is 60. After update it is 55% at 60c which seems to be more close to reality. Reported power consumption is different, too. Like +10w. Have not compared actual draw from the wall yet, though. 
    To summarize.. Try it out if You wish and feel comfortable of doing so. I prefer ZOTAC BIOS configuration myself mainly because of fan settings. Be sure to save original BIOS before flashing in case You want to revert back!

    Just have to comment that the link shows a general page with no download links, saying, "ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3070 Twin Edge, No Result Found."
    I see.. Maybe the link is dependant on info you entered earlier. Anyway twin edge non lhr with boost clock @ 1725 is what you are after. 
    Quick update on power draw..
    Before update the rig was pulling around 1260w from wall. It is exactly the same or even couple of watts less than before. So +10w reported by card is wrong. Or i tend to think that -10w was wrong on acer bios. As said before it is a zotac card in a nutshell and i would like to think that zotac would know how to build bios for their own cards. 
  • girtsj
    girtsj Member Posts: 5

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    Just a thought about this 10w reported power difference.. This could this be reason why benchmarks are getting lower scores. It hits 240w on zotac bios while acer bios would  have another 10w spare and yields slightly more performance. Effectively, acer bios uses 250w while reporting only 240w. Thats my subjective thoughts anyway.
  • GMS2K
    GMS2K Member Posts: 4 New User
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    girtsj said:
    Just a thought about this 10w reported power difference.. This could this be reason why benchmarks are getting lower scores. It hits 240w on zotac bios while acer bios would  have another 10w spare and yields slightly more performance. Effectively, acer bios uses 250w while reporting only 240w. Thats my subjective thoughts anyway.
    For comparing, on left side your ASUS VBIOS, on the right side the original VBIOS:

  • GMS2K
    GMS2K Member Posts: 4 New User
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    Sorry, can not edit, but it should be "For comparing, on left side your ZOTAC VBIOS, on the right side the original VBIOS" in the comment above.

    But just now i´ve been back again to original VBIOS, so now it is left side original VBIOS, right side ZOTAC VBIOS:

  • girtsj
    girtsj Member Posts: 5

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    There is no point to go ZOTAC as You will loose little bit of performance. Unless You want fans to stop when idling. 
    I would not hold my breath that ACER will make new bios though. Don't want to sound negative but I don't think there will be a bios update. It has been almost a year since the feature is out. Most of OEM destop manufacturers (DELL, HP, Lenovo) has already made new bios to support rebar. 
    Shame, really..
  • eldi0s
    eldi0s Member Posts: 4 New User
    edited February 2022
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    Zouri said:
    GMS2K said:
    Don´t waste your time. I did several tests with my RTX 3070 in another environment with MSI Board B550 chipset, PCIe 4.0 and Ryzen 5800X, activated resizable bar. What i have compared: Zotac AMP HOLO RB enabled VBIOS, Zotac TWIN EDGE OC RB enabled VBIOS and the original VBIOS RB disabled. Result in 3DMARK TIME SPY and PORT ROYAL: The original VBIOS is beating both Zotac VBIOS, always the winner.

    I think that there won't be a BIOS update due to the wide spread of OEM manufacturers, Acer would have to release too many variants.

    George
    Interesting.

    You're all missing one little detail. If you take a detailed look at the PCB's of the Acer and Zotac Card you can see that the Acer PCB is missing one GPU Power Phase compared to the Zotac one (upper left corner). 8+1 vs 9+1 So no matter what you do, the Zotac VBIOS will always try to utilize 10 Phases and allocate the set Power Target to same. AMP Holos 262W are resulting in 262/10*9=235W vs. 240W/250W (don't have that card so not sure) on the Acer VBIOS. In other words, even with a higher power target in the VBIOS you will get less FPS as the GPU is not getting the full power resulting in a lower boost frequency. You need to find a suitable VBIOS from a Card with 8+1 GPU phases (Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC) or increase the Power Target even further with a VBIOS Tweaker. I read that someone succesfully flashed his Zotac RTX 3070 Twin Edge OC with an Asus Card Bios to increase Power Target. So it should be possible to use a different vendors VBIOS. (at your own risk)

  • eldi0s
    eldi0s Member Posts: 4 New User
    edited February 2022
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    eldi0s said:
    Zouri said:
    GMS2K said:
    Don´t waste your time. I did several tests with my RTX 3070 in another environment with MSI Board B550 chipset, PCIe 4.0 and Ryzen 5800X, activated resizable bar. What i have compared: Zotac AMP HOLO RB enabled VBIOS, Zotac TWIN EDGE OC RB enabled VBIOS and the original VBIOS RB disabled. Result in 3DMARK TIME SPY and PORT ROYAL: The original VBIOS is beating both Zotac VBIOS, always the winner.

    I think that there won't be a BIOS update due to the wide spread of OEM manufacturers, Acer would have to release too many variants.

    George
    Interesting.

    You're all missing one little detail. If you take a detailed look at the PCB's of the Acer and Zotac Card you can see that the Acer PCB is missing one GPU Power Phase compared to the Zotac one (upper left corner). 8+1 vs 9+1 So no matter what you do, the Zotac VBIOS will always try to utilize 10 Phases and allocate the set Power Target to same. AMP Holos 262W are resulting in 262/10*9=235W vs. 240W/250W (don't have that card so not sure) on the Acer VBIOS. In other words, even with a higher power target in the VBIOS you will get less FPS as the GPU is not getting the full power resulting in a lower boost frequency. You need to find a suitable VBIOS from a Card with 8+1 GPU phases (Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC) or increase the Power Target even further with a VBIOS Tweaker. I read that someone succesfully flashed his Zotac RTX 3070 Twin Edge OC with an Asus Card Bios to increase Power Target. So it should be possible to use a different vendors VBIOS. (at your own risk)

    MSI GeForce RTX 3070 Gaming X Trio or MSI RTX 3070 Ventus 2X OC also has 9 Phases.


  • Zouri
    Zouri Member Posts: 22 Troubleshooter
    edited February 2022
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    Rip bar support
  • girtsj
    girtsj Member Posts: 5

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    eldi0s said:
    Zouri said:
    GMS2K said:
    Don´t waste your time. I did several tests with my RTX 3070 in another environment with MSI Board B550 chipset, PCIe 4.0 and Ryzen 5800X, activated resizable bar. What i have compared: Zotac AMP HOLO RB enabled VBIOS, Zotac TWIN EDGE OC RB enabled VBIOS and the original VBIOS RB disabled. Result in 3DMARK TIME SPY and PORT ROYAL: The original VBIOS is beating both Zotac VBIOS, always the winner.

    I think that there won't be a BIOS update due to the wide spread of OEM manufacturers, Acer would have to release too many variants.

    George
    Interesting.

    You're all missing one little detail. If you take a detailed look at the PCB's of the Acer and Zotac Card you can see that the Acer PCB is missing one GPU Power Phase compared to the Zotac one (upper left corner). 8+1 vs 9+1 So no matter what you do, the Zotac VBIOS will always try to utilize 10 Phases and allocate the set Power Target to same. AMP Holos 262W are resulting in 262/10*9=235W vs. 240W/250W (don't have that card so not sure) on the Acer VBIOS. In other words, even with a higher power target in the VBIOS you will get less FPS as the GPU is not getting the full power resulting in a lower boost frequency. You need to find a suitable VBIOS from a Card with 8+1 GPU phases (Gigabyte RTX 3070 Gaming OC) or increase the Power Target even further with a VBIOS Tweaker. I read that someone succesfully flashed his Zotac RTX 3070 Twin Edge OC with an Asus Card Bios to increase Power Target. So it should be possible to use a different vendors VBIOS. (at your own risk)

    Interesting point. But are You sure that BIOS holds info about how many power phases the card should have? Or doesit only holds info about max power and distributes to power phases available?
    In my bios flashing experiance I have seen opposite results to this case. I have flashed higher tier BIOS to a cheaper card (3080 suprim BIOS to 3080 trio x) and seen improvements. Even if it has less power phases. 
  • eldi0s
    eldi0s Member Posts: 4 New User
    edited February 2022
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    You're right this can work. Let me explain. The BIOS needs to control the power distribution chips on the PCB (OnSemi NCP8610 for those MSI Cards) and they have a specific amount of power phases they can utilize/control, depending on the chip. The RTX 3070 MSI Supreme/Trio/Ventus and also the MSI 3070 TI Supreme all use the same chip (NCP8610), as far as I am aware this chip can handle 8 single phases, MSI Trio/Ventus have 9 and Supreme X / Supreme X Ti have 11. So they somehow use phase doubling here, controlling 2 phases from one output. That's quite common in the industry and as they may use all 8 single phases the MSI Supreme Bios performs well on a MSI Gaming X-Trio utilizing all 9 phases with 1 doubling. The Acer Controller (Brand unknown to me) may also be capable of 8 phases but the PCB layout could only use 7 hardwired ports with some phase doubling. And there you go. The Acer Bios knows which 7 Ports to use and focuses all power to the 7, but the Zotac Bios wants to use all 8 Ports. Or the Acer controller only has 6/7 phases .....

    Again, just guessing, but as I saw many of those performance drops on FE or OEM cards flashed with a custom Bios, this might be the case.

    One last thing. You can try the DELL RTX 3070 Bios as it should be the same PCB as ACER or HP uses.
  • eldi0s
    eldi0s Member Posts: 4 New User
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    Just saw that you're refering to the 3080 Suprim and X-Trio, they both share the same controllers (2x UPI 9512R and 1x OnSemi NCP81611), one uses 13 and the other one 16 phases. To share the same board layout and just not solder the additional SMDs, phase doubling may be used for the additional 3 phases of the suprim which will let the Suprim Bios work on the X-Trio.
  • DukeNukem1
    DukeNukem1 Member Posts: 6

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    I'm sure it's coming any day now 😏

  • Tyranuus
    Tyranuus Member Posts: 14

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    Just to put a cap on this, I heard back from Acer Support this week that unfortunately ACER have decided they will no longer be rolling out resizeable BAR on these 10th gen Intel models. They have also advised there is unfortunately no BETA or engineering BIOS/VBIOS they could offer out either.


    Bit dissapointing. Means if we did want to activate this feature, we would be looking at unofficial VBIOS for alternate ZOTAC/PCPER cards, and new motherboards.

  • DukeNukem1
    DukeNukem1 Member Posts: 6

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    Somehow I'm not surprised. This is my first prebuilt computer and everything is pretty much as expected.

    Luckily I got this very cheap but my next rig won't be prebuild, and it most definitely won't be Acer prebuild.

  • nobios
    nobios Member Posts: 2 New User
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    Could somebody please upload the original 3080 Acer Bios?

This discussion has been closed.