SSD upgrade for SPIN5 SP513-52N-552K - Confused on form factor

Smokindog
Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
in Swift and Spin Series
I've spent the last couple of hours on the web and in this forum and am still confused as to which drives I can choose from for an SSD upgrade in my SPIN5 SP513-52N-552K.

I'm going to open the device to replace the battery later this week and decided, what the heck, I may as well upgrade the SSD while I'm in there.

I'm no stranger to computers and hardware but fairly ignorant on the whole M2.2280 selection and specifications.

I looked up my current drive and it is an HFS256G39TND-N210A.  From the net I've ID'd it as a SATAIII M2.2280 device with a connector that has 3 distinct segments/tabs, a longer center bracketed by 2 smaller segments.

I've read that this laptop can also accept a PCI/NVMe drive.  THIS is where I now get extremely confused.  I see PCIe M2 drives with a similar 3 tab edge connector but others with only 2 tabs, a similar "small tab" next to a "larger tab".

For this laptop it may not even make a noticable difference going from a SATAIII drive to a PCI/NVMe drive but I'd like to better understand my options, and maybe learn something moving forward.

AT A MINIMUM, I am going to presume that I need a drive with the THREE (3) tab connector.  Is THIS correct?

AND THEN, it would appear I can select EITHER a SATAIII OR a PCI/NVMe drive.  Is THIS correct?

Thank you so much in advance.

Best Answers

  • StevenGen
    StevenGen ACE Posts: 12,155 Trailblazer
    Answer ✓
    Smokindog said:
    billsey said:
    Your model supports either an M.2 SATA drive or an M.2 NVMe drive. The connector itself doesn't really matter since the drives typically have the same layout, and either an M key or B+M key. Supposedly the B+M key layout on a drive tells you it supports the slower x1 or x2 speeds (x1 is SATA speed, x2 is the slower NVMe). M key drives are required to support NVMe x4 as well. Your slot handles SATA, NVMe x2 and NVMe x4 and the last of those is the fastest. Don't both paying extra for an NVMe x4 4.0, your slot is NVMe x4 3.0 and doesn't support the faster mode. You will likely notice the difference between SATA and NVMe x4, since the latter has four times the data transfer speed...
    So THIS drive will work in my laptop?

    https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-black-sn750-nvme-500gb/p/N82E16820250112?Item=N82E16820250112

    The "Western Digital WD BLACK SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4" is an  ideal drive for your laptop and it will work fine as your SP513-52N-552K M.2 drive specs is the PCIe Gen3 x4, M.2 NVMe will work or just the SATA III at 6 Gb/s 2280 type M.2 drive will work also.
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    edited February 2022 Answer ✓
    I give up.  After trying everything I've mentioned above and more. it just doesn't work.  I've found dozens more places on the web where seemingly articulate folks say the same thing.  There is no NVMe driver in the original ACER image to boot from and unless a Windows internals expert happens along to tell me how to add that driver to the cloned image it's not going to boot.  Even the Acronis for WD documentation calls this out.

    A CLEAN Windows install DOES work so if you want to go that route then the upgrade to an NVMe drive works as expected.

    I purchased another 500Gb SATA III WD Blue drive and am moving forward.  Sadly they SATA drive cost more than the NVMe ;)

    If someone has the exact steps to get the right driver on the old image to enable the boot I'm all ears but for now I'll be happy with more space and chalk the cost of the NVMe drive up to experience :)

    It took less than 45 minutes to clone and install the new SATA drive, as expected! :)

«1

Answers

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 34,219 Trailblazer
    Your model supports either an M.2 SATA drive or an M.2 NVMe drive. The connector itself doesn't really matter since the drives typically have the same layout, and either an M key or B+M key. Supposedly the B+M key layout on a drive tells you it supports the slower x1 or x2 speeds (x1 is SATA speed, x2 is the slower NVMe). M key drives are required to support NVMe x4 as well. Your slot handles SATA, NVMe x2 and NVMe x4 and the last of those is the fastest. Don't both paying extra for an NVMe x4 4.0, your slot is NVMe x4 3.0 and doesn't support the faster mode. You will likely notice the difference between SATA and NVMe x4, since the latter has four times the data transfer speed...
    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • brummyfan2
    brummyfan2 ACE Posts: 28,468 Trailblazer
    Hi,
    Yes, you are right, you can use a M.2 NVMe  or a M.2 SATA SSD n your laptop.
    Acer Spin SP513-52N Performance Results - UserBenchmark

    Acer Predator PT516-51s Performance Results - UserBenchmark

  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    billsey said:
    Your model supports either an M.2 SATA drive or an M.2 NVMe drive. The connector itself doesn't really matter since the drives typically have the same layout, and either an M key or B+M key. Supposedly the B+M key layout on a drive tells you it supports the slower x1 or x2 speeds (x1 is SATA speed, x2 is the slower NVMe). M key drives are required to support NVMe x4 as well. Your slot handles SATA, NVMe x2 and NVMe x4 and the last of those is the fastest. Don't both paying extra for an NVMe x4 4.0, your slot is NVMe x4 3.0 and doesn't support the faster mode. You will likely notice the difference between SATA and NVMe x4, since the latter has four times the data transfer speed...
    So THIS drive will work in my laptop?

    https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-black-sn750-nvme-500gb/p/N82E16820250112?Item=N82E16820250112

  • StevenGen
    StevenGen ACE Posts: 12,155 Trailblazer
    Answer ✓
    Smokindog said:
    billsey said:
    Your model supports either an M.2 SATA drive or an M.2 NVMe drive. The connector itself doesn't really matter since the drives typically have the same layout, and either an M key or B+M key. Supposedly the B+M key layout on a drive tells you it supports the slower x1 or x2 speeds (x1 is SATA speed, x2 is the slower NVMe). M key drives are required to support NVMe x4 as well. Your slot handles SATA, NVMe x2 and NVMe x4 and the last of those is the fastest. Don't both paying extra for an NVMe x4 4.0, your slot is NVMe x4 3.0 and doesn't support the faster mode. You will likely notice the difference between SATA and NVMe x4, since the latter has four times the data transfer speed...
    So THIS drive will work in my laptop?

    https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-black-sn750-nvme-500gb/p/N82E16820250112?Item=N82E16820250112

    The "Western Digital WD BLACK SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4" is an  ideal drive for your laptop and it will work fine as your SP513-52N-552K M.2 drive specs is the PCIe Gen3 x4, M.2 NVMe will work or just the SATA III at 6 Gb/s 2280 type M.2 drive will work also.
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    StevenGen said:
    Smokindog said:
    billsey said:
    Your model supports either an M.2 SATA drive or an M.2 NVMe drive. The connector itself doesn't really matter since the drives typically have the same layout, and either an M key or B+M key. Supposedly the B+M key layout on a drive tells you it supports the slower x1 or x2 speeds (x1 is SATA speed, x2 is the slower NVMe). M key drives are required to support NVMe x4 as well. Your slot handles SATA, NVMe x2 and NVMe x4 and the last of those is the fastest. Don't both paying extra for an NVMe x4 4.0, your slot is NVMe x4 3.0 and doesn't support the faster mode. You will likely notice the difference between SATA and NVMe x4, since the latter has four times the data transfer speed...
    So THIS drive will work in my laptop?

    https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-black-sn750-nvme-500gb/p/N82E16820250112?Item=N82E16820250112

    The "Western Digital WD BLACK SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4" is an  ideal drive for your laptop and it will work fine as your SP513-52N-552K M.2 drive specs is the PCIe Gen3 x4, M.2 NVMe will work or just the SATA III at 6 Gb/s 2280 type M.2 drive will work also.
    Thanks!  I was unaware that these M2 slots could be used/designed to accept either the 2 or 3 tab connectors.

    I always looked at that as the "key" to keep you from installing the wrong device.

    Now I just need to decide if I want to pump the extra money into the drive.  A 500Gb SATAIII which still has better numbers than the original is only $40 and this WD is about $80.  It is an almost 4 yr old device and I even questioned replacing the battery at $40 :):) 

    THANKS AGAIN!
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    Couldn't edit my post :(

    Maybe I'll scale back to the Blue for only $50 :)

    https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-blue-sn550-nvme-500gb/p/N82E16820250134?Item=N82E16820250134
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    OK, I bought the blue drive linked above and a USB enclosure.  I used Macrium Reflect to clone the existing drive.  I've used it dozens of times without fail.  I also created a Macrium Rescue boot USB.  After the clone I opened the laptop and swapped the M2 drives (Old SATA drive for new NVMe drive).  I went to the BIOS and the new drive is seen in the hardware page (first) but not the boot page.  The PC in fact will NOT boot and BSODs in an "inaccessible boot device" error.

    After some searching I see there are probably driver issues from cloning the SATSA drive to NVME.  I follow the instructions to boot to the recovery USB, use "fix boot problems" on the new drive but again, no change, BSOD.

    I'm ready to pull out my hair here for not just getting another SATA drive.

    What am I missing?

    THANKS in advance!
  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 34,219 Trailblazer
    When you did the clone, was the NVMe drive connected to a USB port? It should have worked fine with MR, that's what I used for the last few I've done. Put the old drive back in, connect the new drive to the system externally and use Disk Management to see how the two differ. The only difference in partition sizes should be the system partition, the EFI (usually 100MB), the Recovery (usually around 500MB) and the Recovery Image (usually 1GB+) should be the same sizes on both disks.
    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    billsey said:
    When you did the clone, was the NVMe drive connected to a USB port? It should have worked fine with MR, that's what I used for the last few I've done. Put the old drive back in, connect the new drive to the system externally and use Disk Management to see how the two differ. The only difference in partition sizes should be the system partition, the EFI (usually 100MB), the Recovery (usually around 500MB) and the Recovery Image (usually 1GB+) should be the same sizes on both disks.
    Yup, as I've always done, put new NVMe drive into the USB enclosure I bought with the SATA SSD still in place.  Made the clone with Macrium and everything seems to be fine.  I can browse the copy and all.  I found similar experiences while browsing the web.

    Disk 0 is the SATA SSD in the M2 slot, Disk 1 is in the USB enclosure.



    Disk 1 is the SATA SSD in the M2, Disk 2 is the NVMe in the USB enclosure





  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    I've found numerous posts like this one on the net!

  • brummyfan2
    brummyfan2 ACE Posts: 28,468 Trailblazer
    Smokindog said:
    I've found numerous posts like this one on the net!

    If you haven't tried backup and recovery method in Macrium, give it a try, backup the original SSD to an external HDD, create a bootable recovery USB disk, replace the original drive with the new SSD, boot with the USB disk and recover the image from backup to the new SSD.

    Acer Predator PT516-51s Performance Results - UserBenchmark

  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    edited February 2022
    brummyfan2 said:
    Smokindog said:
    I've found numerous posts like this one on the net!

    If you haven't tried backup and recovery method in Macrium, give it a try, backup the original SSD to an external HDD, create a bootable recovery USB disk, replace the original drive with the new SSD, boot with the USB disk and recover the image from backup to the new SSD.
    I saw a post from you in another thread about a different machine concerning info from HWINFO64.  My machine "fails your test".  Do you still stand behind this post?  The info screen in the BIOS DOES report the drive and the Macrium Rescue disk does see the drive and the "fix boot disk" does access the drive.  I can also boot the new drive while in the USB enclosure.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RVC6F9Y?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
  • brummyfan2
    brummyfan2 ACE Posts: 28,468 Trailblazer
    Smokindog said:
    brummyfan2 said:
    Smokindog said:
    I've found numerous posts like this one on the net!

    If you haven't tried backup and recovery method in Macrium, give it a try, backup the original SSD to an external HDD, create a bootable recovery USB disk, replace the original drive with the new SSD, boot with the USB disk and recover the image from backup to the new SSD.
    I saw a post from you in another thread about a different machine concerning info from HWINFO64.  My machine "fails your test".  Do you still stand behind this post?  The info screen in the BIOS DOES report the drive and the Macrium Rescue disk does see the drive and the "fix boot disk" does access the drive.  I can also boot the new drive while in the USB enclosure.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RVC6F9Y?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
    Yes, HWiNFO program helped for that particular model to find out the details of PCIe lanes and in few other models but it doesn't help at all for newer models 😢

    Acer Predator PT516-51s Performance Results - UserBenchmark

  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    brummyfan2 said:
    Smokindog said:
    brummyfan2 said:
    Smokindog said:
    I've found numerous posts like this one on the net!

    If you haven't tried backup and recovery method in Macrium, give it a try, backup the original SSD to an external HDD, create a bootable recovery USB disk, replace the original drive with the new SSD, boot with the USB disk and recover the image from backup to the new SSD.
    I saw a post from you in another thread about a different machine concerning info from HWINFO64.  My machine "fails your test".  Do you still stand behind this post?  The info screen in the BIOS DOES report the drive and the Macrium Rescue disk does see the drive and the "fix boot disk" does access the drive.  I can also boot the new drive while in the USB enclosure.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RVC6F9Y?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
    Yes, HWiNFO program helped for that particular model to find out the details of PCIe lanes and in few other models but it doesn't help at all for newer models 😢
    I didn't think it was an issue but looking for all avenues before investing the time to go through the imaging process :)  I've NEVER spent this much time cloning and upgrading a drive.  I even repeated the clone last night hoping there was a fluke.

    Does Secure boot affect this?  I also noticed that in the BIOS it reports "NVMe drive does not support HD password".  I've got NONE of the passwords set, all default as it came from ACER, but SOMETHING is interfering here :)

  • brummyfan2
    brummyfan2 ACE Posts: 28,468 Trailblazer
    Smokindog said:
    brummyfan2 said:
    Smokindog said:
    brummyfan2 said:
    Smokindog said:
    I've found numerous posts like this one on the net!

    If you haven't tried backup and recovery method in Macrium, give it a try, backup the original SSD to an external HDD, create a bootable recovery USB disk, replace the original drive with the new SSD, boot with the USB disk and recover the image from backup to the new SSD.
    I saw a post from you in another thread about a different machine concerning info from HWINFO64.  My machine "fails your test".  Do you still stand behind this post?  The info screen in the BIOS DOES report the drive and the Macrium Rescue disk does see the drive and the "fix boot disk" does access the drive.  I can also boot the new drive while in the USB enclosure.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RVC6F9Y?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
    Yes, HWiNFO program helped for that particular model to find out the details of PCIe lanes and in few other models but it doesn't help at all for newer models 😢
    I didn't think it was an issue but looking for all avenues before investing the time to go through the imaging process :)  I've NEVER spent this much time cloning and upgrading a drive.  I even repeated the clone last night hoping there was a fluke.

    Does Secure boot affect this?  I also noticed that in the BIOS it reports "NVMe drive does not support HD password".  I've got NONE of the passwords set, all default as it came from ACER, but SOMETHING is interfering here :)

    Yes, cloning misfires occasionally, that's why I prefer image backup and recovery method, I don't think Secure boot causes the problem.

    Acer Predator PT516-51s Performance Results - UserBenchmark

  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    I see THIS post in MANY places that some systems need the image "massaged" to change from a SATA to an NVMe drive and THIS appears to be what I'm facing.  The FREE version of Macrium Reflect does NOT give access to the Redeploy tool they tell you to use.

    Has anyone actually used Macrium on THIS particular ACER platform?  I do NOT believe it's got the the mentioned Intel Intel Rapid Storage abstraction, or at least I don't see it in the BIOS where it normally resides.  Makes sense since there is only a single drive slot.

    Are their other tools I might use to make this NVMe alteration?  THIS seems to really fit what I am seeing and it's mentioned a LOT on the Macrium forums.


  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    OK, I just ordered a SATA III drive as I'm just about done wasting time on this!  Ordered the WD Blue 500Gb SATA III.  Surprisingly it's more expensive then the NVMe I'm trying to use now! :)

    I've tried the image process and it failed during the write to the NVMe drive.  Had the image on a USB drive and booted from the Macrium Recovery USB.

    As my last ditch effort I'm doing a clean install from a W10 USB install media I created.  IF it succeeds and boots, I'll clone the "C drive" from the original and overlay it.  The fact it's installing tells me there is more than likely a boot sector driver issue as discussed above but would love to hear from those better acquainted with the internals of Windows.

    Does anyone see any issues with product keys for Office or the OS itself (or other things)?  I have no idea where my keys are (yes they're legal) and the OS key itself that was on the bottom of the device is "rubbed off".

    If that works I can at least return the SATA III drive I just ordered.

    I NEVER thought this would be such a mess.  NEVER had such problems but I've also never changed underlying technologies like SATA to NVMe in an upgrade like this.

    I'd appreciate any opinions on overlaying the original Partition 3 ("C drive") ONLY onto the new install!
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    OK, the FRESH install from a W10 USB stick boots on the NVMe drive.

    Any words of wisdom on how to get my original "C drive" image onto the drive without breaking this?  Can I just overlay the partition?  Not sure if the driver I need is in the boot partition and/or the "C" partition?

    THANKS IN ADVANCE!
  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 34,219 Trailblazer
    Boot from the old drive, back up the system partition to a third drive, boot from the new drive, restore backup. That won't mess with any partitions and should give you the full experience you had with the old drive. The clone process should have handled it though, I don't see anything obviously wrong in what you did...
    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Smokindog
    Smokindog Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    billsey said:
    Boot from the old drive, back up the system partition to a third drive, boot from the new drive, restore backup. That won't mess with any partitions and should give you the full experience you had with the old drive. The clone process should have handled it though, I don't see anything obviously wrong in what you did...
    I don't see how a clone process can add a driver that isn't there in the first place.  It wouldn't be a clone if it got changed in the process.

    The underlying problem is that the original image/drive has no NVMe driver included and that is what I need to figure out how to add once I xfer the image to an NVMe drive.

    I'm going to try to restore the system partition and see if that works but I suspect it will not.  I did copy the system32 driver folder from the bootable NVMe image (fresh install) to an external drive and my last attempt will be to use DISM in the command line window of the bootable USB W10 installer to xfer the drivers back to the image.

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