Installing Windows 10 (P03-640)

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Doomotron
Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
in Predator Desktops
A game I play a lot of does not run on Windows 11 due to missing driver files that are present In Windows 10. Therefore, I'll need to install Windows 10 on my new computer (I am looking at the P03-640) and I was wondering if it'll mess anything up as it seemingly comes with W11 by default? Alternatively, is it possible to opt for it to come with Windows 10?
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  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
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    Check if you can run the game in "compatibility mode". I don't know if there is even one in Win 11.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    GotBanned said:
    Check if you can run the game in "compatibility mode". I don't know if there is even one in Win 11.
    People have tried it, it just doesn't work on Windows 11 for most people. There isn't an update coming as the game is unsupported.
  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,779 Trailblazer
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    What drive file is missing? I can't imagine why a game needs a driver unless it also requires some specific hardware, since driver files are for hardware not software...
    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    billsey said:
    What drive file is missing? I can't imagine why a game needs a driver unless it also requires some specific hardware, since driver files are for hardware not software...
    I have no idea which file is the problem (it isn't necessarily drivers). The game is from 2007 so it already has compatibility issues - it only got a 64 bit version a few years ago. For some people it runs mostly fine but for most it just doesn't work.
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
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    If we knew the game we might be able to find a fix?

    I'm sure you have already done this, but check game's support forum, Steam forum (if any) or if there is a subreddit for this game. But like I said, you have most likely done this already.

    If nothing else helps, maybe you can install Win 10 alongside (dual boot) your Win 11 installation?
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    https://steamcommunity.com/app/24010/discussions/3/5733650980547384406/

    I generally don't mention the game because I'm embarrassed that I play it.
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
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    Nothing to be ashamed of. Some people play even BF2402 or so I am being told. j/k

    You mention that the game came out in 2007. Interestingly some mention that TS2022 and Win 11 does work for them.

    Then there is Train Simulator World (2017) in MS Store that according to the specs sheet works on Win 10 or later. I have no idea if Win 11 is "later".

    If the game does not work for some reason, you could try dual booting or perhaps creating Windows 10 on USB drive. I have no idea how terribly the OS and game would run, but...
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    GotBanned said:
    Nothing to be ashamed of. Some people play even BF2402 or so I am being told. j/k

    You mention that the game came out in 2007. Interestingly some mention that TS2022 and Win 11 does work for them.

    Then there is Train Simulator World (2017) in MS Store that according to the specs sheet works on Win 10 or later. I have no idea if Win 11 is "later".

    If the game does not work for some reason, you could try dual booting or perhaps creating Windows 10 on USB drive. I have no idea how terribly the OS and game would run, but...
    It is true that for some it works, but the factors that make it work are unknown. I can't say for certain the 'someone' was correct when he talked of missing files, but hypothetically speaking there is some driver or feature that was removed by Windows 11, but isn't deleted for some upgrading from 10, but with future updates may be removed.

    Personally I'd rather just do a full installation of Windows 10 instead of messing around with dual booting. I read that Windows 10 could be activated with Windows 11 product codes, but does that apply to OEM versions?

    My plans for the computer were to replace the hard disk with a SATA SSD (or remove it entirely and install a new 2TB SSD where the 256GB was) and then install Windows 10.

    Train Sim World is a completely different game built on a different engine - it's actually the replacement for Train Simulator. TSW works great on Windows 11 and even the Steam Deck.
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
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    Installing Win 10 can be done, and is most likely the best option. If the activation doesn't go through, you can buy an activation code for a few bucks. I don't know about your country, but in Europe this is fully legal and I have done this few times myself. I seem to remember that selling OS licenses in the US is still illegal.

    Some people had problems finding, installing or using PredatorSense after a fresh install. If you don't use PS the possible problems shouldn't matter to you. Personally I prefer to control my GPU fans and clocks with MSI Afterburner, but that's just me. But if you like LED Bling! Bling! and PS doesn't work, you may lose the ability to control them.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    GotBanned said:
    Installing Win 10 can be done, and is most likely the best option. If the activation doesn't go through, you can buy an activation code for a few bucks. I don't know about your country, but in Europe this is fully legal and I have done this few times myself. I seem to remember that selling OS licenses in the US is still illegal.

    Some people had problems finding, installing or using PredatorSense after a fresh install. If you don't use PS the possible problems shouldn't matter to you. Personally I prefer to control my GPU fans and clocks with MSI Afterburner, but that's just me. But if you like LED Bling! Bling! and PS doesn't work, you may lose the ability to control them.
    I live in the UK so if it's an EU law it probably still applies as most haven't been revoked or updated.

    Is MSI Afterburner free software? In the event the 'keep apps and files' option appears when installing Windows 10, will that keep PredatorSense? If not, I don't mind as I'll probably just unplug the LEDs anyway (assuming it's a plug) as I find them a bit silly to be honest. I assume they're separate to the powe LED?
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
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    The LED strip in your case and the two LED fans have their own connectors. You can just unplug them, if you can't control them via PredatorSense. I prefer to look at the screen than at the lightshow inside my PC. ^^ Power LED is different, so you won't lose it even if PS is not working.

    MSI Afterburner is free and you can get it from HERE. You can overclock and even undervolt your GPU with it. Youtube has tons of videos how to do this.

    Good luck! Let's hope your little downgrade goes well.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    One last question - up until now I have been looking at the version with the RTX 3060. However, there is a version with the 3060Ti for £100 more. However, Amazon reports the 3060Ti version only having 4GB of VRAM, with the 3060 having 12GB. Is this true? And if it is, would it still be better to go with the Ti?
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    edited May 2022
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    Amazon must have made a mistake, or something shady is going on: RTX 3060 has 12Gb VRAM and 3060 Ti 8Gb. RTX 3060 Ti is faster, but only you can decide if the performance gain is worth 100 quid. It's very good for playing at 1080p and maybe even 1440p. From those two I'd buy Ti in a heartbeat.

    Since I don't know your monitor's resolution or its max refresh rate, I suggest you watch few comparison videos LIKE THIS ONE. But even if you buy 3060 Ti, your FPS may be lower than those on the video because your CPU and RAM will be not as "fast". But on the other hand, the video is almost year old and new GPU drivers and game patches usually provide more performance.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    GotBanned said:
    Amazon must have made a mistake, or something shady is going on: RTX 3060 has 12Gb VRAM and 3060 Ti 8Gb. RTX 3060 Ti is faster, but only you can decide if the performance gain is worth 100 quid. It's very good for playing at 1080p and maybe even 1440p. From those two I'd buy Ti in a heartbeat.

    Since I don't know your monitor's resolution or its max refresh rate, I suggest you watch few comparison videos LIKE THIS ONE. But even if you buy 3060 Ti, your FPS may be lower than those on the video because your CPU and RAM will be not as "fast". But on the other hand, the video is almost year old and new GPU drivers and game patches usually provide more performance.
    My monitor is 1080p60, and I plan to play most games at 900p anyway with higher anti-aliasing. My friend recommends higher VRAM but would you in this case?
  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,779 Trailblazer
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    Hey, I still play Mangband on occasion, and that's from the early 90s... Anyway, my guess is it assumes that some older version of the .NET Framework is installed and chokes if that's not there. Try going in and installing the older ones as Features. You may not have 3.5 enabled, since it's not on by default, and 3.5 includes 2.0 and 3.0.
    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    billsey said:
    Hey, I still play Mangband on occasion, and that's from the early 90s... Anyway, my guess is it assumes that some older version of the .NET Framework is installed and chokes if that's not there. Try going in and installing the older ones as Features. You may not have 3.5 enabled, since it's not on by default, and 3.5 includes 2.0 and 3.0.
    I will try that first before going back to Windows 10.
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    edited May 2022
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    Doomotron said:

    My monitor is 1080p60, and I plan to play most games at 900p anyway with higher anti-aliasing. My friend recommends higher VRAM but would you in this case?
    I used to have RTX 3070 and OLED TV (4k@60) as a monitor. Most games I played didn't run out of VRAM, which could cause stuttering or FPS dips. But of course 4K has four times the pixes and is four times more difficult to drive than 1080p@60. Recent and demanding games didn't even reach 60 FPS, but that was expected.

    8Gb will be more than enough for 1080p. 3060 Ti has plenty of power to run any(*) game at 1080p@60, so there's no need to go for 900p unless you really want. And when you have the PC, I'd cap the max framerate to 60 (or 57), so that your GPU doesn't need to render extra frames per second that you won't even see because of your monitor. As an added bonus your GPU will run cooler, quieter and use less power. Win, win, win!

    I found THIS ARTICLE you might find it interesting.

    (*) Ok, there are few exceptions, but with nvidia you can use DLSS to boost up your FPS in most modern games with almost no visible loss of quality.
  • TamnaSidharth12
    TamnaSidharth12 Member Posts: 1 New User
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    @GotBanned I am thinking to Install windows 11 on my Corei5-9th Gen but how I come to know that which game is compatible for Windows 11 ....
  • GotBanned
    GotBanned Member Posts: 617 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
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    TamnaSidharth12 said:
    @GotBanned I am thinking to Install windows 11 on my Corei5-9th Gen but how I come to know that which game is compatible for Windows 11 ....
    Howdy!


    I wish there was a list of games and programs that will have issues, but as far as I know there isn't. It is quite safe to expect that all games that work with Win 10 will also work with Win 11.

    I personally will be using Win 10 until upgrading to Win 11 will give me clear benefits.
  • Doomotron
    Doomotron Member Posts: 21 Troubleshooter
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    GotBanned said:
    Doomotron said:

    My monitor is 1080p60, and I plan to play most games at 900p anyway with higher anti-aliasing. My friend recommends higher VRAM but would you in this case?
    I used to have RTX 3070 and OLED TV (4k@60) as a monitor. Most games I played didn't run out of VRAM, which could cause stuttering or FPS dips. But of course 4K has four times the pixes and is four times more difficult to drive than 1080p@60. Recent and demanding games didn't even reach 60 FPS, but that was expected.

    8Gb will be more than enough for 1080p. 3060 Ti has plenty of power to run any(*) game at 1080p@60, so there's no need to go for 900p unless you really want. And when you have the PC, I'd cap the max framerate to 60 (or 57), so that your GPU doesn't need to render extra frames per second that you won't even see because of your monitor. As an added bonus your GPU will run cooler, quieter and use less power. Win, win, win!

    I found THIS ARTICLE you might find it interesting.

    (*) Ok, there are few exceptions, but with nvidia you can use DLSS to boost up your FPS in most modern games with almost no visible loss of quality.
    Would you suggest going for the 3060 or 3060Ti in that case?

    Also, is the hard drive 2.5"? And what version of SATA does it use?

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