Want to boot from USB, but cannot change BIOS settings.

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Answers

  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    aphanic said:
    ...<deleted>...
    We may be able to change it, Acer has recently changed the SATA operation mode in the BIOS setting. To access it you have to be in the Main tab and press Ctrl+S, but it only applies to the majority of machines. Some others don't get that shortcut for some reason (mistake maybe?) and they should wait for another firmware upgrade.

    ME>>>>>> Ctrl+S gives "SATA Mode"" -> options are
    >>>>> Optane with RAID
    >>>>> Optane without RAID

    See if you can access the setting, and switch to AHCI instead (if you had Windows installed still it may not boot after the fact, it requires reconfiguration). If you don't have that option, I'd try updating the firmware to the latest revision which is 1.08 for your machine per the support page and checking again: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/8192?b=1

    ME>>>> I have BIOS v1.06
    ME>>>> So I will update the BIOS to v1.06 ....

    And if you still can't access the SATA operation mode, I think your only bet for now would be to mount the internal system as a software RAID, but that complicates things as to what I can send you for you to make a proper installation.

    ME>>>> Still the same - two options are Optane with and without RAID.
    ME>>>> - forgot to change boot order, reboot Do I need secure boot on or off? I'll try on first.
    ME>>>> I'm in ubuntu on USB - lsblk still only shows USB disk & its 2 partitions.
    ME>>>> I could start trying all combos (maybe I am mistaken - but I should be seeing the main HD as another "disk" is my guess)
    ME>>>> but I will await further instructions...

    Just like I did this time, I could do the same with the partitioning scheme (and filesystem settings you want, in case you prefer btrfs, or xfs, etc) only to be dd-ed to the internal disk instead. (I can also provide a live environment of Windows for you to boot up from that would see the disk no problem, and you could use ImageUSB from there)

    ME>>>> I would be happy with whatever works best/easiest.

    All in all it's great news, we got to the point where you can boot an installed Linux, now we just need to figure out how to make it so for the internal drive.

    ME>>>> Yes, realyl appreciate your time & effort.

    PS. There was an old Intel whitepaper on RST in Linux, the the procedure may seem convoluted whereas in AHCI things work out of the box, and there's no performance detriments I could see in some tests I performed some month back: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/rst-linux-paper.pdf

    In any case, your preferred initial partition setup was:
     - ESP (partition needed for UEFI)
     - 40 GB swap (darn... haha)  <---- that can be cut down a wee bit if it makes things easier?
     - 25 GB /
     - 5 GB /var
     - Rest for /home

    I may need to use another smaller USB stick like this time to ease the operation, but you'll be able to grow /home to the full once GParted (or equivalent) fixes the GPT table. With compression and all I would expect a similar download size.
    My comments are embedded above with "ME>>>>" :)

  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    ME>>>> I have BIOS v1.06
    ME>>>> So I will update the BIOS to v1.06 ....  
    Oops make that update to v1.08 (BIOS Update CPU microcode 0086.)
  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    >>>>>> Ctrl+S gives "SATA Mode"" -> options are
    >>>>> Optane with RAID
    >>>>> Optane without RAID

    I think Optane without RAID would be ideal thing for Linux, but I don't have the same model so I can't be sure.

    >>>> I'm in ubuntu on USB - lsblk still only shows USB disk & its 2 partitions.
    >>>> I could start trying all combos (maybe I am mistaken - but I should be seeing the main HD as another "disk" is my guess)
    >>>> but I will await further instructions...

    Yes, you could definitely try all of the combos haha, but I think UEFI + Optane without RAID + Secure Boot disabled (needs to be, there are no signatures for the Linux bootloader to check I'm afraid, but that's a whole other topic) could be it. The UEFI part is not changeable to legacy or something right? You probably need a supervisor password set to change those settings.

    >>>> I would be happy with whatever works best/easiest.
    Writing to the internal disk would be easy from Windows, because it is able to see it. So the same we did for the USB stick could be done for the internal disk, and I'm sure you'll see "ubuntu" as a boot menu entry for the internal disk as well, but if Linux isn't able to communicate with the disk because of its interface it would never find the root partition and continue the boot.

    You'd most likely end up in a broken shell.

    As for the swap space it was just me giggling, I don't usually see swap requirements that large; reminds me of databases or Android builds, etc. Making a partition that big is no problem, I'm working in virtual anyway (VMware under Windows) so I can make it as big as I want and it won't occupy a thing.

    Besides, before imaging and compressing I zero fill all of the sectors so the image compressed weighs but a little in comparison.

    I'm still wondering how come you're unable to boot from the default live environment of Ubuntu over there, let me try something before we go onto the image for your disk. I'll try to do the same, create a bootable USB with Ubuntu 18.04.4 in there and image it with ImageUSB. Send you that image and see if after restoring it you're able to boot from it. Give me a couple (but more than 2 haha) of minutes.
  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    Just for the record:
    I have set
      - Set supervisor password
      - Secure Boot -> disabled
      - Boot Mode   -> UEFI   (greyed out - cannot change)
      - SATA Mode   -> Optane without RAID
      - Reboot -> goes into Linux
    Still only see USB stick disk.
    It's way past my bedtime here (PST) so off to zzzzz soon.
  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    It's way past my bedtime here (PST) so off to zzzzz soon.
    Rest, rest, I'll leave things here for tomorrow, don't worry ;)

    I'm in CEST so the day is beginning hehe
  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    edited July 2020
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless you're able to find a configuration in which mdraid or FakeRAID is able to see and access the internal disk it may be impossible for you to install Linux natively in that computer at the moment.

    Leaving mine in RST+Optane (the only other option is AHCI and there's no problem with it) I wasn't able to locate any disks. mdraid did identify the platform correctly, it's a Comet Lake based system, but it was unable to report anything being plugged into any of the ports (running on Arch to have the latest version of each utility and kernel):

    $ sudo mdadm --detail-platform<br><br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Platform : Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Version : 17.5.0.4136<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;RAID Levels :<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Chunk Sizes : 4k 8k 16k 32k 64k 128k<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;2TB volumes : supported<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;2TB disks : supported<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Max Disks : 15<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Max Volumes : 2 per array, 4 per controller<br> &nbsp;I/O Controller : /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:17.0 (SATA)<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Port0 : - no device attached -<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Port1 : - no device attached -<br>
    If something is detected you could try to assemble the array with mdadm
    as well (see mdadm --assemble --scan for example), it requires a config file to be set and all. I think you'll find some information on it in the Arch wiki or around the net but let me know if you don't and I'll try to write something blindly because I can't verify it.

    As for the image, there's no point in creating one for the internal hard drive without being able to see it, but I did create one from an usable live USB stick for you to try. It's Ubuntu 18.04.4, and if it failed at least we know we could install and run Linux effectively off of an USB drive (which ideally it'd need to be in an USB 3.0+ enclosure to use full-duplex and all).

    Here's the link to the Ubuntu live (it'll appear as Linpus lite in the selection menu): https://mega.nz/file/AEkklSBK#ooG4wSAW1EWv21zj-DkTTahGtpWLpB2y5_MFQGDsVEk
  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    aphanic said:
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless you're able to find a configuration in which mdraid or FakeRAID is able to see and access the internal disk it may be impossible for you to install Linux natively in that computer at the moment.

    Leaving mine in RST+Optane (the only other option is AHCI and there's no problem with it) I wasn't able to locate any disks. mdraid did identify the platform correctly, it's a Comet Lake based system, but it was unable to report anything being plugged into any of the ports (running on Arch to have the latest version of each utility and kernel):

    $ sudo mdadm --detail-platform<br><br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Platform : Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Version : 17.5.0.4136<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;RAID Levels :<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Chunk Sizes : 4k 8k 16k 32k 64k 128k<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;2TB volumes : supported<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;2TB disks : supported<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Max Disks : 15<br> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Max Volumes : 2 per array, 4 per controller<br> &nbsp;I/O Controller : /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:17.0 (SATA)<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Port0 : - no device attached -<br> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Port1 : - no device attached -<br>
    If something is detected you could try to assemble the array with mdadm
    as well (see mdadm --assemble --scan for example), it requires a config file to be set and all. I think you'll find some information on it in the Arch wiki or around the net but let me know if you don't and I'll try to write something blindly because I can't verify it.

    As for the image, there's no point in creating one for the internal hard drive without being able to see it, but I did create one from an usable live USB stick for you to try. It's Ubuntu 18.04.4, and if it failed at least we know we could install and run Linux effectively off of an USB drive (which ideally it'd need to be in an USB 3.0+ enclosure to use full-duplex and all).

    Here's the link to the Ubuntu live (it'll appear as Linpus lite in the selection menu): https://mega.nz/file/AEkklSBK#ooG4wSAW1EWv21zj-DkTTahGtpWLpB2y5_MFQGDsVEk
    I am not 100% clear. Is the strategy to 
      1 - See what "mdadm" gives me running Linux from USB
      2 - If something it detected, then run assemble to make it available to install from USB
      3 - Then try to install from USB
    Not sure what the difference is between the first mega.nz link you gave and the 2nd one is.
    thanks,
    -rvr

  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    Yep, the idea is to find a combination in which that command I posted shows something connected to either port. If that's the case then yes, you can have Linux installed in the internal drive as expected.

    If with all combinations you get the same output as I showed above I'm afraid installing Linux right now may be impossible, or I lack the knowledge to do so, which is another possibility of course.

    The difference between the first and the second is the way Ubuntu was packaged. In the first link it was an installation directly into the USB stick, as if you went through the installer and chose to install it on an external drive instead of an internal one. It has its own ESP (EFI) partition and that's why it reads as "ubuntu" in the boot menu.

    The second link slightly larger for some reason is the live CD packaged in a way I'm able to boot from here when UEFI is enabled and Secure Boot disabled. There's only 1 FAT32 partition there (and I forgot to mention that there are 2 files you should delete from there, DELETEME and DELETEME2, they're just filled with zeroes). The idea there was to see if you could boot using that image into the live Ubuntu installation media, and if you were able to see somehow the internal drive, install from there.

    Odds are not very optimistic I must say :(
  • When you activate the f12 boot menu in the bios, does the usb stick appear when you press f12 before the acer logo?
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  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    egydiocoelho - I do get the prompt. The USB is identified at "linpus lite"
    aphanic - I tried a few times and one time I felt close - but the install was on the extra space on the USB - I had bought a new 3.1 USB 32 GB to see if that was the problem. There was never an identification of the ports having anything - I never saw the internal drive.

    I phone the store that I bought it from and spoke to a "geek squad" member. They said that Optane technology does not make it possible to install linux, that there are problems to get to the internal drive. If I have courage I will go tonight and get return it. So much for 12 hors of my time, but I did learn a lot. 
    I appreciate your efforts, it was nice to have help as I had hit a brick wall with this. Turns out it was not a real one but a virtual one!
    Again, thanks for the help.
    Lesson: Optane technology really guards access to the internal drives and does not like to share.
    take care all.
    -rob
  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    It's sad to hear @robrichards, I wouldn't know who to blame for the problem to be honest. RST has been around since forever and Optane is just a caching mechanism for people who have HDDs instead using one such module as accelerator.

    I wonder if writing something in the Intel forums would change anything, maybe there's somebody out there that knows about this stuff better and could give us better pointers on how to access the internal drive when SATA operates in RST mode (with or without RAID, which is even more shocking). I'll write a thread in a couple of hours, I just wanted to check now in case there was a development be it's still 4:44am over here, I still get to sleep some 2 hours more hehe.

    For me it was easy because I have an AHCI option for SATA and disks just appear as usual, but I had no luck when it's set to RST+Optane. Send me a picture of the SATA operation modes available in the BIOS to attach to the post at Intel if at all possible, I'd like to get to the bottom of this and maybe start a round of coding to make it happen.

    Either with them, or Acer, but I wouldn't know how to get to an Acer tech support that would understand this all or had the power to convey things upstairs (leading to a firmware upgrade allowing SATA in AHCI if it is even possible for that model, depends on its architecture I believe). Maybe @Acer-Manny or @Acer-Jose have more resources than we can ever hope for.
  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    Well @aphanic , went to return and they closed early today - so tomorrow.
    Therefore I could take a photo...voila...
    Again, thanks for helping, now on the hunt for a laptop that I can load linux up on to. I am a bit cautious now. But I have some battle scars to show off to geek friends...lol
    cheers
    -rob
    ps get some sleep

  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    edited July 2020
    :open_mouth:

    Do you have an Optane acceleration module or need to use it? Nevermind, I just saw you do. In AHCI mode you'd be able to see the internal drive without issues! And I think Optane acceleration also work in Linux, but I wonder how that goes, I don't have anything to test it out; but if I'm not mistaken you can either accelerate Windows or Linux, not both at the same time.
  • I'm a little lost on this topic, because vanilla was in trouble and I couldn't login. So so that I can locate myself, answer me this: when you select ahci mode, ssd and hdd still don't appear in linux? Is the usb stick also not recognized?
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  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    I'm a little lost on this topic, because vanilla was in trouble and I couldn't login. So so that I can locate myself, answer me this: when you select ahci mode, ssd and hdd still don't appear in linux? Is the usb stick also not recognized?
    I've returned the laptop, and will be careful not to try Optane "enabled" laptops in the future. The BIOS would only allow me to select Optane - and nothing else. Booting to a linux USB was possible, but I could not see or access the internal hard drive. Nuts, I liked the lok and feel of a new computer.
    cheers,
    -rob

  • aphanic
    aphanic Member Posts: 959 Seasoned Specialist WiFi Icon
    edited July 2020
    That was sensible Rob, but I haven't seen that sort of behaviour being widespread so other models could be good (I know my A515-54G is capable of setting AHCI as a SATA operation mode).

    Working with Optane can be tricky but it doesn't have to be painful, there's an option to use Optane in mine as well, but given that I'm using an M.2 SSD in that port Optane wouldn't be possible (nor would it help). It's only useful when you have internal hard drives since it provides caching between the two to accelerate things (and ease off SMR backlogs probably...)

    Do you know a funny thing? Intel had acceleration cards for laptops already circa 2007, I have a machine that supports it. It was called Intel Flash Cache or Turbo Memory, very nice thing to have back then when SSDs were still not a thing.
  • ashanrupasinghe
    ashanrupasinghe Member Posts: 1 New User
    You can do it using https://www.balena.io/etcher/. Do not want to change BIOS settings. It explain in this video: https://youtu.be/ISS8-OLlFyQ


  • robrichards
    robrichards Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
    You can do it using https://www.balena.io/etcher/. Do not want to change BIOS settings. It explain in this video: https://youtu.be/ISS8-OLlFyQ


    I returned my Acer and got something else. Thanks for reply, I would try this if I still had it. This might have worked for me, but I did try etcher (as well as 2-3 other ones) and it does not boot into the USB but dropped me into grub. I could not see the physical internal hard drive from grub, I believe it was due to "Optane" technology that does raid & other stuff to the internal hard drive. +1 for replying to old thread, I hope this helps someone else!
    cheers,
    -rob