M.2 Slot Confusion Helios 500 ( PH517-61-ROGX) Ryzen

psychfilms

Subject Laptop: Acer Predator Helios 500 (Model:RYZEN PH517-61-ROGX)  Bios V1.06
(refer to attached graphic below for this issue)

There seems to be a difference on ACER's website regarding the published info on the two M.2 slots for the Helios 500 RYZEN  and what is actually on the motherboard.
WHAT I OBSERVED:  Both slots (1 & 2) are physically configured with a right-side notch typical for PCIe NVMe SSD's.  ACER says Slot #2 is M.2 SATA only. What I learned is that the OEM M.2 SSD on Slot #2 is a PCIe SSD.  Correspondingly, Slot #1 does not work with a 2TB PCIe NVMe SSD I tried to install, but is physically configured for it (right-side notch).

The OEM-installed 256GB SSD in slot #2 contains Win 10 OS.  Upon inspection, this factory-supplied SSD in Slot #2 is in fact a PCIe SSD, not the SATA SSD specified for that slot on the website - See attached photo-illustration.  I had purchased an Intel 660p M.2 2280 2TB NVMe PCIe 3.0 x4 3D NAND that I originally intended to use as storage in Slot #1; however, the computer would not boot into Windows with the 2TB SSD in Slot #1.  After posting the problem on this forum, a user suggested cloning the Windows OS from Slot #2 SSD onto the 2TB and just replacing it in Slot #2 to boost my storage capacity from the original 256GB SSD.  I was able to successfully clone the OEM-supplied 256GB boot SSD in Slot #2 to the mentioned 2TB SSD in an external enclosure. Tthen I remove it from the enclosure and replaced the OEM-supplied SSD in Slot 2.  The computer operates with no issues with the Intel SSD.

I'm just confused as to why the ACER website says Slot #2 is "SATA only" when I'm NOW operating the computer with the Intel 660p M.2 2280 2TB NVMe PCIe 3.0 x4 3D NAND ?!

And what's up with Slot #1 not working with PCIe NVMe?

Bart

nsandersen

I can confirm that it works with the factory-installed 0.5TB PCIe in my case in slot 2 and a 0.5TB SATA drive in slot 1 (both slots has have only one notch).

xapim

@psychfilms so basically its the other way around the slot 1 its sata only the slot 2 its nvme and yes that original 256gb ssd seems to be sata PC400M280S its sata only not nvme
Yup definitely sata only https://www.ebay.com/p/SK-Hynix-256gb-SSD-Solid-State-Drive-Hfs256gd9mne-6200a/663055103

psychfilms

Below is a conversation I have with ACER Support regarding confusion on the two M.2 slots:

ACER M.2 Slot Issue

ME: There seems to be a difference between your website published info on the two M.2 slots for my ACER Predator Helios 500 (RYZEN 2700 model) and what is actually on the motherboard.  Slot #2 has installed your OEM-installed 256GB SSD that contains Win 10 OS.  Upon inspection, the factory-supplied SSD in Slot #2 is in fact a PCIe SSD, not the SATA SSD described on your website.  I was able to clone the SSD in Slot #2 to a 2TB NVME PCIe 3 x4 SSD successfully and insert into Slot 2.  The computer operates with no issues.   Both slots (1 & 2) are physically configured with a right-side notch for PCIe NVMe SSD's.  However, when I first purchased the 2TB NVME PCIe 3 x4 SSD mentioned above, my original intent was to use it as extra storage in Slot #1 but the computer would not boot into Windows with the 2TB SSD in Slot #1.

So What I learned is Slot #2 works with PCIe NVMe and Slot #1 does not work with PCIe NVMe but is physically configured for it.  Can you clarify what I am experiencing?

ACER RESPONSE: I have reached out to our service technicians regarding this issue. The information on Acer’s website was NOT correct. The service guide confirms that the left slot (slot 2) supports PCI/SATA and right slot (slot 1) only SATA. This information is being sent to Acer so that they can update posted specifications on their site. I apologize for any confusion that this misinformation has caused.

ME: Doesn't a M.2 SATA SSD have a different configuration slot with a notch on BOTH sides of the circuit-board?   The both female M.2 slots in the AMD Motherboard in the Helios 500 have only a notch on the right-side suggesting both motherboard slots are PCIexpress NVME slots (Ironically, this is what your website shows for the Intel version of the Helios 500.

ACER RESPONSE: For Acer units, there is no 'mechanical difference' on the M.2 connector slot for PCIe or SATA.

NOTE: This last response does not make sense. According to a Google search: "M.2 supports both SATA and PCIe storage interface options, while mSATA is SATA only. Physically, they look different and cannot be plugged into the same system connectors"

However, on Kingston's website an FAQ seems to support ACER's response: "An M.2 SSD can only support one protocol, but some systems have M.2 sockets that can support either SATA or PCIe."

nsandersen

I can confirm that it works with the factory-installed 0.5TB PCIe in my case in slot 2 and a 0.5TB SATA drive in slot 1 (both slots has have only one notch).

psychfilms

nsandersen said:

I can confirm that it works with the factory-installed 0.5TB PCIe in my case in slot 2 and a 0.5TB SATA drive in slot 1 (both slots has have only one notch).

Coincidentally, I just received a M.2 SATA III SSD and installed in Slot #1 and YES it works.   I had previously contacted customer support and they confirmed that the ACER website is incorrect (see email from ACER Support below):
*************************************************************
Hello, 

I have reached out to our service technicians regarding this issue.  The technician has informed me that the information on Acer’s website is not correct. The service technician confirms that for (RYZEN motherboards) the left slot (slot 2) supports PCIe and right slot (slot 1) only SATA.  This information is being sent to Acer so that they can update their article.

I apologize for any confusion that this misinformation has caused.

Thank you.  Acer Recertified Support Team

*********************************************************************

I followed up saying that the motherboard SLOT 1 only has one 'notch' on the right side, whereas a m.2 SATA SSD has notches on both sides of the SSD.  ACER responded that for the supplied motherboard SLOT1 will accept the M.2 SATA SSD even though the receiving M.2 slot on the motherboard is just right-notched - AND FUNCTION PROPERLY.

And it did.  I just wish they explained this properly in documentation in the first place!!

Bart

caito

@psychfilms , @nsandersen , @xapim

Hi Bart,
Thanks for detailing your experience when upgrading the drives

I just purchased a Acer Predator Helios 500 PH517-61-R0GX Gaming Laptop, AMD Ryzen 7 2700 flavoured
and am wanting to upgrade the drives as well

Thank you for your post, as it gives me caution as to which SSD would do the job best

I have a couple links of SSDs i am looking at, and if you could (or anyone else knowledgeable on the matter)
could kindly point me in the right direction before i purchase?
these are the two i am looking at:

For Slot #2 [Win10 instalation]
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-1TB-MZ-V7E1T0BW/dp/B07BN217QG/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=1tb+nvme+pcie+3x4+ssd&qid=1565370686&s=gateway&sr=8-4

For Slot #1 [Data - Video,3D,etc...]
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-860-SATA-Internal-MZ-N6E1T0BW/dp/B07822Z77M/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=M.2+SATA+SSD&qid=1565037080&s=gateway&sr=8-4#Ask

My goal being to install the fastest configuration of SSDs into whats capable with this machine

Could you or anyone let me know if the above is a good option?

Many thanks in advance for any and all help you can throw my way

kind regards,
Carl 

psychfilms

Carl:   

Your selection of the Samsung M.2 SSD's (one SATA and one PCIe NMVe) are good choices.  You'll need to "re-image" the Operating System on the ACER to the PCIe card.  I used Acronis True Image software.  I also used an inexpensive M.2 external enclosure connected by a USB 3.0 cable to the laptop to make that image transfer.  Then I simply replaced the existing Slot 2 256GB M.2 PCIe card that came with the computer, with the higher storage M.2 PCIe card. 

In slot one, I inserted the M.2 SATA card.

Good luck...Bart

caito

@psychfilms , @nsandersen , @xapim 

Hi Bart,
First off, Thank You VERY MUCH for taking the time to review what i proposed to do & respond with your experience & advice.  Input from forum members like yourself make blogs like these a true value to its members.  Thank you much again.

Just to be sure Im headed in the right direction, after careful consideration & budgetary constraints,
Im going to purchase just one for the moment.
The one being the faster NVME M.2. Samsung 970 w insane read/write speeds for OS & VM:
https://tinyurl.com/y3rayk6m
along with the external enclosure you've mentioned that I found on amazon for cloning the OS:
https://tinyurl.com/yyn9myhg


Below I've put together a diagram of my planned upgrade path for the Helios500AMD laptop with the above 970:


Essentially, to be sure I understand you correctly.  When I receive my laptop next week, I will want to first boot up as normal,
1- let the OS be installed on the Stock SSD which should be in Slot#2, then,
2- clone the drive to an external enclosure containing the Samsung970
3- swap out the Stock SSD with my new cloned OS Samsung 970 SSD

Thanks again for your previous help and for any additional help you can throw my way,

many thanks again & kind regards,
Carl

psychfilms

Carl:

You're good with slot 2, but if you notice the picture in my first post at the top of this thread, the factory-supplied 256GB SSD is a PCIe card and you cannot move it to Slot 1.  Slot 1 is M.2 SATA only. In your post on August 9, you had picked-out a suitable Samsung M.2 SATA SSD - Use that one. 

Here's an idea.  Once you are able to clone the OS using the external enclosure, rather than storing it away, install the 256GB OEM SSD you removed from the Acer, format it and not you have an external 256GB backup/storage drive!

One more thing, when you open the back of the Acer Helios 500, you are going to find a THIRD SSD slot, but not the M.2 style. The third slot is for a 2.5" SATA SSD.

Good luck...Bart

caito

@psychfilms
Maaan Bart!  Straight up, THANK YOU very much again, Your input & advice is extremely appreciated.

Great Advice regarding the enclosure swap.  I'll wait for later to pop in a nice SATA in the other maybe next year or so.
Looking forward to the crazy read/write speeds boasted by the 970.

Its been a while since i upgrade, 7-8 years, so many parts of this laptop im impressed with ~ processor, ram, graphics chip, and now crazy ssd action,
I was fortunate to pick up this laptop, in a sale for less than i expected,
enabling me to use that unaccounted bonus to get a nice monitor & ssd with it too.
My current laptop was nice in its heyday, but this is quite a leap from my current setup,
i imagine that it will be a notably more satisfying performance to what im used to. 
.. . crossing fingers all goes well.

for what its worth, will reach back out to update my progress

thanks again & kind regards-
Caito

psychfilms

Carl/Caito:

Glad to help.  I agree. I can't believe the specs on this laptop. I picked-up a 'refurbished' one months back for $1,600.  I came from ACER and I couldn't tell it from a new laptop.  

Do you plan to update the RAM? One thing to note about the RAM. The speed is not 2666Mhz as advertised.  It's 2400Mhz.  If you are going to update to 32GB from the as-received 16GB, the empty slots are right-under the back cover of the laptop.  If you want to put a faster RAM, I would consult ACER Customer Service to find out the max speed (and specs) of the RAM that the motherboard will support.  If you just want to add another 16GB in the empty slots, you will need to specify the exact same RAM specs of the memory currently installed.   One more thing about the RAM. The factory-supplied RAM can only be accessed if you remove the motherboard which is usually a pain to do.  

Definitely keep me posted on how you do.  Bart

xapim

psychfilms said:

Carl/Caito:

Glad to help.  I agree. I can't believe the specs on this laptop. I picked-up a 'refurbished' one months back for $1,600.  I came from ACER and I couldn't tell it from a new laptop.  

Do you plan to update the RAM? One thing to note about the RAM. The speed is not 2666Mhz as advertised.  It's 2400Mhz.  If you are going to update to 32GB from the as-received 16GB, the empty slots are right-under the back cover of the laptop.  If you want to put a faster RAM, I would consult ACER Customer Service to find out the max speed (and specs) of the RAM that the motherboard will support.  If you just want to add another 16GB in the empty slots, you will need to specify the exact same RAM specs of the memory currently installed.   One more thing about the RAM. The factory-supplied RAM can only be accessed if you remove the motherboard which is usually a pain to do.  

Definitely keep me posted on how you do.  Bart

caito psychfilms According to the service guide it comes with ddr4 2400 but these are also the supported modules probably tested with

MEMORY

Memory KINGSTON SO-DIMM DDRIV 2666

16GB ACR26D4S9D8MD-16 

Memory HYNIX SO-DIMM DDRIV 2400 16GB

HMA82GS6AFR8N-UH 

Memory MICRON SO-DIMM DDRIV 2666

16GB MTA16ATF2G64HZ-2G6E1 

Memory KINGSTON SO-DIMM DDRIV 2666

8GB ACR26D4S9S8MH-8 

Memory HYNIX SO-DIMM DDRIV 2400 8GB

HMA81GS6AFR8N-UH 

So im assuming there is no doubt here it will support 2666 without any issues up to 64gb dual channel and i recommend hyperx 2666 dual channel set if anyone would want to upgrade

psychfilms

Use this: 

Memory HYNIX SO-DIMM DDRIV 2400 8GB

HMA81GS6AFR8N-UH

The to be added memory has to match exactly with the installed memory or the latency/timing of the modules will not synch properly and the performance will drop off significantly.

16GB is fairly good even for video editing, so maybe you should stick with that to start

caito

@psychfilms
@xapim

Hi Bart, thanks again, I went ahead and ordered the SSD, some thermal paste and heatsink.
will update on my progress soon.
I plan to upgrade the RAM probably later this year, and will definitely pop back in here for advice regarding that before i make the leap.
up to this point, every bit of hardware on this machine is quite an upgrade leap for me as is, so one upgrade at a time for me. lol.  

thanks again and will keep you all posted shortly

DAWGY62

I'm running 64GB of Kingston hyperx impact 2666 with a 1TB 970EVO Plus in SLOT 2 and a 1TB 860 EVO in the 2.5" bay. I'm waiting for a 2TB 860EVO M.2 Sata III to arrive Monday to place into SLOT 1. If they all 3 work then I will eventually upgrade the 2.5" to a 4TB 860EVO. 

Anyone know if it is possible to run 3 drives at the same time in this machine???

Helios 500 AMD

PH517-61

psychfilms

DAWGY62 said

Anyone know if it is possible to run 3 drives at the same time in this machine???

Absolutely. I have 2TB each in slots 1 & 2 and 2TB in the 2.5 SATA SSD form factor for a total of 6TB !! No issues.

PS; how difficult was it for you to remove the Mobo in order to access the hidden RAM??  

Also, what are the specs (Part number of the 2666mhz RAM you installed?

Thanks. Bart, Arizona

smjparsons

Has anyone had a restocking fee waived?

egydiocoelho

I check you commented on another topic @smjparsons. Ideally, you create a new topic by clicking ask a question. Add me by putting an @. Also, it would be interesting to let you know if ssd was recognized in the uefi-bios info guide.

LennartF

Thanks for the fast answer

LennartF

Hi everyone the original sk Hynix drive is working fine but I did try to change it to toshiba xg5 kxg50znv512g. Problem is it's only shows up sometimes when rebooting others it just get stuck on the predator logo when booting and win10 USB usb installer don't always see it either when it happens. Hw info shows everything is fine with drive when it decide to boot in windows but as I said everything works every time with sk Hynix so is it something wrong with the Toshiba drive or isn't acer compatible with some brands of ssd ?

psychfilms

LennartF said:

Hi everyone the original sk Hynix drive is working fine but I did try to change it to toshiba xg5 kxg50znv512g. Problem is it's only shows up sometimes when rebooting others it just get stuck on the predator logo when booting and win10 USB usb installer don't always see it either when it happens. Hw info shows everything is fine with drive when it decide to boot in windows but as I said everything works every time with sk Hynix so is it something wrong with the Toshiba drive or isn't acer compatible with some brands of ssd ?

If you only get to the Predator logo during start-up and the computer boot hangs-up there, then you have the SSD in the wrong slot.  You eBay link does not work so I don't know if you purchased the right SSD.  See my earlier posts in this thread.  I was able to get everything working.