Arch Linux on Acer Predator Helios 500

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kazetsukai
kazetsukai Member Posts: 2 New User
Hello there all, I purchased an Acer Predator Helios 500 yesterday exclusively for use under Linux. I'm going to use this thread/post to document my experience. 

Some basic questions out of the way:

WHY Linux:
I'm a developer that occasionally runs a game or two, Windows environments are crippleware for folks like me. The design goals of Windows is to hide from the user what's going on under the covers as much as possible, and what's under the covers is precisely what I'm interested in. You can look at this both ways : "But I have to use the command line to do something" vs "But I can just issue a command to do anything". Some people prefer the safe and rigid boundaries a GUI keeps you in, others prefer the limitless power of the prompt.

WHY Arch:
While I have nothing bad to say about alternatives, its minimalistic and really balances well. Beware that it has no GUI installer. 

What Works:
  • Booting and Installation.

    I had to disable secure boot (and I think TPM for the nvme card) in the BIOS to get this booting, which oddly required setting a BIOS password. I guess that's understandable? On that topic, the Helios 500 BIOS is extremely basic and rudimentary by today's standards, not a plus in my book. Virtually everything is hidden from the user. If your nvme card doesn't show up, you're likely experiencing a security issue.

  • Graphics, 3D, etc.

    The 1070 is a fairly new card, so nouveau drivers are ineffective. Use the official nvidia driver... performance is amazing. I've never seen such a smooth desktop, ever. G-SYNC is enabled and works flawlessly. KMS, high res framebuffer console, etc all look good.

  • Sound

    Out of the box, loud, crisp, and deep- surprising for a laptop. Very good sound.

  • Games!

    Keeping in mind this is day one, I tested on Wine, both Tales of Zestiria and Skyrim. Again, never seen framerates like these... my desktop I'm replacing has a GTX 760 and I've grown used to Intel graphics. They're buttery smooth at max settings.  Next in line are Crysis, FFXV, and Far Cry 5.

    For Linux native games, haven't tried any yet. Have quite a few on Steam. Unigine Valley runs, again, excellent on Ultra.

  • Wifi

    Not in the installer, but post-installation this fired right up. 

  • Trackpad

    Out of box, smooth and accurate.

  • Anything else I haven't listed under "doesn't work".


What Doesn't Work:
  • The Wifi card during Installation.

    I had to use wired ethernet to run the installation, after booting worked out of the box. The card is one of the newest I've used, so I imagine this is just a matter of Arch updating their installer image at some point. Intel wifi chips are among the best supported in the kernel due to Intel's direct contributions to both the kernel and firmware trees.

    This may mean that other distros not as bleeding edge may have this problem, and for a while. Its also entirely possible they don't have it at all, and things work out of the box for them.

  • RGB Control of the Keyboard.

    I'd like to contact someone in Acer about how they implemented the RGB control in Windows. As said, I'm a developer and would like to write RGB control functionality for Linux if possible, perhaps add some effects and/or hooks to tie it to things like CPU usage, temps, etc... Acer: How do you talk to the RGB controller? I thought there might just be entries under /sys/class/leds or something, but no luck.

So far this is all I've got, will update as I go along. If you're interested in this or have a question, ask away.

Answers

  • UncleMikey42
    UncleMikey42 Member Posts: 28 Enthusiast WiFi Icon
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    Pretty cool that it actually mostly works out of the box. I'm not likely to go this way (if I really want Linux on the device, I'll run a VM or download WSL), because I didn't buy it for development, but it's still nice to know the option is feasible!
  • platinum_ultra
    platinum_ultra Member Posts: 6

    Tinkerer

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    Hello there all, I purchased an Acer Predator Helios 500 yesterday exclusively for use under Linux. I'm going to use this thread/post to document my experience.


    What are your thoughts on installing Ubuntu in some flavor like  16.04 or 18.04 ? Do you think I'll have any issues  (  linux development is my only reason for buying it ). I want to work with cuda/tensorflow on the 1070 and of course have a decent desktop  ( without to much nvidia issues / tweaks )

    Please let me know what you think..


  • Red-Sand
    Options
    Very nice write up!
    It's actually very common that wifi doesn't work initially for alot of specialty systems.

    I would be interested in helping with the testing of the RGB controller in the linux platform.

    Have you tried WINE with the native RGB controller to see if it works?
    - Hotel Hero
  • samim007x
    samim007x Member Posts: 1 New User
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    Would you like to give CentOS. Is the backlight static or is it completely off.
  • Czmoku
    Czmoku Member Posts: 4 New User
    edited July 2019
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    [PH517-61]
    I have latest manjaro and it seems that sound and charging problem still present. Acer really ignore linux users, shame you. I know that linux have few percent of market but really. I bought this laptop for work and now i need to make "magic tricks" to turn on charging and sound is still as workaround - jack still not working. Ahhh.... If you search laptop for work - skip this one. I spend few thousand for "toy" not a DTR. 
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited July 2019
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    Czmoku unfortunately linux its not officially supported and all manufacturers are the same they all use 99% windows because after all the predators/nitros are gaming laptops in first place and to use them for work purposes always come as second option (for work/production purposes there are the specific work/business laptop categories) so everyone who would want linux its at their own risk to get it to work properly by themselves there are a few troubleshooting threads already around


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • Czmoku
    Czmoku Member Posts: 4 New User
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    I know that linux is not main goal for the manufactures but these two thing (sound and charging) will take how much time for developer to fix? Week? Two? I thing company such as Acer (or other) can pay for such as developer. Also one thing - that point "manufactures do not support linux" is not valid because laptop is not phone where every producent need to adjust drivers specify to the hardware. Acer connect "ready to go" modules, but did that in not standard way (that is why linux thing that headphones are connected for example). If he did such as modification i thing he should also make fix in kernel/drivers for linux. My previous post were maybe to strong, sorry for that. I just wanted to warn other people that AMD version is no capable to working with linux in "plug and play" way. There is not many information how amd version working with linux and that is why wrote that if someone would like to buy one of the helios 500 amd version.

    To inform people which would like to buy helios 500 amd and run with linux:

    - currently jack port do not work because pin responsible to notify about headphones connected or not always shows that headphones are connected
    - laptop do not charge properly, changing p-states for gpu and cpu fix that - dunno why
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited July 2019
    Options
    Czmoku if the acer laptops (or other manufacturers) were supposed to work on linux they would come with it pre installed dont u think linux always was and always will be a second choice OS and a use it at your own risk no matter what anyone says will never be properly officially supported by any manufacturer (except those almost useless chome os devices) but as alwasy this is just my opinion on it and its what happens these days


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • LogXx
    LogXx Member Posts: 15 Troubleshooter
    Options
    xapim said:
    Czmoku if the acer laptops (or other manufacturers) were supposed to work on linux they would come with it pre installed dont u think linux always was and always will be a second choice OS and a use it at your own risk no matter what anyone says will never be properly officially supported by any manufacturer (except those almost useless chome os devices) but as alwasy this is just my opinion on it and its what happens these days
    a315-41-r8xr comes with linux preinstalled, but still, any other distro than preinstalled one won't work properly
  • kazetsukai
    kazetsukai Member Posts: 2 New User
    Options
    Czmoku said:
    I have latest manjaro and it seems that sound and charging problem still present. 
    I have no such charging issues on Arch Linux, and I doubt they're present in other distros like Ubuntu. This sounds to me like a configuration issue or other issue specific to how manjaro builds their kernels.
    Czmoku said:
    Acer really ignore linux users, shame you. 
    Even if your issues were legitimately due to lack of support from Acer (they are not), I personally don't find this helpful. I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish by shaming the OEM, the components are what need support, and the component manufacturers that build the chipsets in use in the Helios 500 seem to contribute to the Linux kernel source tree (namely Intel and NVIDIA). Do you have the Ryzen version? You may have different chips.
    xapim said:
    Czmoku unfortunately linux its not officially supported and all manufacturers are the same they all use 99% windows
    This is fairly obvious.

    xapim said:
    ...they all use 99% windows because after all the predators/nitros are gaming laptops in first place and to use them for work purposes always come as second option
    I personally don't find this helpful either... When I'm not doing software development, I play plenty of games, watch videos, etc on this laptop. I picked it specifically because it was gaming oriented, high end work-oriented ultrabook are all too thin to properly cool their internals under load. The Helios 500 does not have the throttling problems you'll find even in modern day MacBook Pros.
    xapim said:
    so everyone who would want linux its at their own risk to get it to work properly by themselves there are a few troubleshooting threads already around
    Again as this is stating the obvious I don't find it all that helpful.  I've been hoping someone in Acer might be able to point me in a good direction so that I could reverse-engineer the LED/RGB keyboard controls, but as the backlight works as-is, I'm not all that bothered. Reiterating, Linux on the Helios 500 has been great, I think its an excellent choice for any Linux gamers or professionals out there looking to get some work done, and those who otherwise can't stand the crippleware that is modern Windows. Acer has sold me on the value of >60hz panels and given us a good upgrade path with Thunderbolt 3 ports and 4 RAM slots.

    I probably wont be upgrading until around this time next year, but when I do, here's hoping there's a successor. At this rate, looks like unlike this time, I wont be buying Intel next round either, so it would be nice to see a mid/high-end laptop packing Ryzen chips.





  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    Options
    LogXx said:
    xapim said:
    Czmoku if the acer laptops (or other manufacturers) were supposed to work on linux they would come with it pre installed dont u think linux always was and always will be a second choice OS and a use it at your own risk no matter what anyone says will never be properly officially supported by any manufacturer (except those almost useless chome os devices) but as alwasy this is just my opinion on it and its what happens these days
    a315-41-r8xr comes with linux preinstalled, but still, any other distro than preinstalled one won't work properly
    Thats because the one that came pre installed it was customized for it same as acer windows builds :)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited August 2019
    Options
    Czmoku said:
    I have latest manjaro and it seems that sound and charging problem still present. 
    I have no such charging issues on Arch Linux, and I doubt they're present in other distros like Ubuntu. This sounds to me like a configuration issue or other issue specific to how manjaro builds their kernels.
    Czmoku said:
    Acer really ignore linux users, shame you. 
    Even if your issues were legitimately due to lack of support from Acer (they are not), I personally don't find this helpful. I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish by shaming the OEM, the components are what need support, and the component manufacturers that build the chipsets in use in the Helios 500 seem to contribute to the Linux kernel source tree (namely Intel and NVIDIA). Do you have the Ryzen version? You may have different chips.
    xapim said:
    Czmoku unfortunately linux its not officially supported and all manufacturers are the same they all use 99% windows
    This is fairly obvious.

    xapim said:
    ...they all use 99% windows because after all the predators/nitros are gaming laptops in first place and to use them for work purposes always come as second option
    I personally don't find this helpful either... When I'm not doing software development, I play plenty of games, watch videos, etc on this laptop. I picked it specifically because it was gaming oriented, high end work-oriented ultrabook are all too thin to properly cool their internals under load. The Helios 500 does not have the throttling problems you'll find even in modern day MacBook Pros.
    xapim said:
    so everyone who would want linux its at their own risk to get it to work properly by themselves there are a few troubleshooting threads already around
    Again as this is stating the obvious I don't find it all that helpful.  I've been hoping someone in Acer might be able to point me in a good direction so that I could reverse-engineer the LED/RGB keyboard controls, but as the backlight works as-is, I'm not all that bothered. Reiterating, Linux on the Helios 500 has been great, I think its an excellent choice for any Linux gamers or professionals out there looking to get some work done, and those who otherwise can't stand the crippleware that is modern Windows. Acer has sold me on the value of >60hz panels and given us a good upgrade path with Thunderbolt 3 ports and 4 RAM slots.

    I probably wont be upgrading until around this time next year, but when I do, here's hoping there's a successor. At this rate, looks like unlike this time, I wont be buying Intel next round either, so it would be nice to see a mid/high-end laptop packing Ryzen chips.





    kazetsukai You are completely right linux its and alwasy was a better os than windows and now its able to compete with the gaming ability etc but still has a lot to go before any normal user jumps on it (it will get there in time) its mainly used by devs any normal user with only minimum knowledge on windows (and believe me there are many) wouldnt jump to linux i remember i tried red hat back in 99 when i had my pentium II and it was a nightmare the first time its really scary i managed to get it to work properly later on my P3 500 but with mandrake not red hat and never touched linux again installed as system drive only vm and sometimes i still use it (backtrack 5)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • Ljugtomten
    Ljugtomten Member Posts: 1 New User
    Options
    Sorry for awakening an old thread, but this information may help someone else.

    OS: Kali Linux 2022.2 (Debian based)
    Laptop: Acer Predator PH517-61
    WiFi card was long ago changed from whatever was shipped to Intel AX200 so no problems with Wifi not being available during install.

    Problem: When kernel has loaded and GUI is being started, the light for battery / charging is constantly off and you have very low performance. The battery is not draining when charger is plugged in but it never detects that a charger is plugged in, thus running in a low power state for CPU and GPU.
    Root cause: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/999

    The fix on the page works, but when the laptop battery is charging it gets reset after a few seconds and you are back in low power state again.
    Workaround: A script that sets the power levels every few seconds, spawned by a systemd-unit at boot.
    You can change the value (seconds) in the sleep loop to fit you, 3 seconds works best on my computer (the first 5-6 seconds the light may flicker off and on, but then stabilize)

    /opt/amdgpu.sh

    #!/bin/bash
    while true; do
        sleep 3
        echo "manual" > /sys/class/drm/card0/device/power_dpm_force_performance_level
        echo "2 3" > /sys/class/drm/card0/device/pp_dpm_mclk
        echo "3 4 5 6" > /sys/class/drm/card0/device/pp_dpm_sclk
    done

    #cp amdgpu.sh /opt/amdgpu.sh
    #sudo cp amdgpufix.service /etc/systemd/system/ && sudo systemctl start amdgpufix.service


    /etc/systemd/system/amdgpufix.service

    [Unit]
    Description=Force AMD GPU power states
    #Requires=Network.target
    After=systemd-user-sessions.service

    [Service]
    Type=simple
    RemainAfterExit=yes
    ExecStart=/opt/amdgpu.sh
    ExecStop=

    [Install]
    WantedBy=multi-user.target