E5-521-65DE no support for Win 10 Creators Fall update

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Irish_Steve
Irish_Steve Member Posts: 6

Tinkerer

edited March 2023 in 2017 Archives
So, almost by accident, I discovered this week that Acer are not providing ongoing support for the E5-521-65DE for Windows 10 Fall creators update, having provided support for earlier Windows 10 and related updates. That's worrying, in that it's already been installed automatically some weeks ago by the routine Windows update process. While there have been some issues, the problems I have seen are not unique to Acer, they are also affecting other hardware, so I have no reason to suspect that Acer drivers are an issue, which is probably just as well, in that if drivers are an issue, there will apparently be no update or support for them. 

Given that the machine is less than 3 years old, I am considerably less than happy that I have to look to get a new laptop if I want to continue to use Windows, as if I revert to an earlier version of Windows, I will no longer have support for critical updates.

I will be talking to the original retail supplier with a view to taking action under EU Sale of Goods legislation, as less than 3 years is not an acceptable life span for a computer.

Has anyone been able to discover what hardware issues have caused Acer to withdraw support for this machine?

Lets just say that if I do have to go looking for a new laptop as a result of this withdrawal of support, it is very unlikely to be another Acer, given the manner in which Acer seem now to be operating their support policy. That's a pity, in that I've been using (and recommending) Acer laptops for a number of years now, and found them to be a good and reliable machine, and at present, there are no other reasons to be looking to upgrade, as there's still plenty of disc space available, and I've not had any significant issues with performance to make me want to move to a new machine. A lack of Windows support will however leave me with very few options if I want to remain secure.


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  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 44,593 Trailblazer
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    >>>So, almost by accident, I discovered this week that Acer are not providing ongoing support for the E5-521-65DE for Windows 10 Fall creators update, having provided support for earlier Windows 10 and related updates. >>>

    (1) How and from what source did you discover this? (2) What was the factory-installed WinVer on your E5? Jack E/NJ

    Jack E/NJ

  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
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    If you update to windows fall creators, it is not very likely that you will have compatibility issues with drivers like graphics, sound drivers as you can download them from the official websites. I would also create a recovery drive of the current OS, so if in case something becomes incompatible to just pre-install the earlier version of the windows.
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • Irish_Steve
    Irish_Steve Member Posts: 6

    Tinkerer

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    JackE said:

    >>>So, almost by accident, I discovered this week that Acer are not providing ongoing support for the E5-521-65DE for Windows 10 Fall creators update, having provided support for earlier Windows 10 and related updates. >>>

    (1) How and from what source did you discover this? (2) What was the factory-installed WinVer on your E5? Jack E/NJ

    Win ver when the machine was new was 8.1, which was upgraded when 10 arrived on the scene. The information regarding no further support comes from the Acer site, https://www.acer.com/ac/en/GB/content/windows10-fall-creators-update, which does not mention the E5-521. It was however supported for the earlier creators update in April.

    I have then asked the question with e-mail to support, and they have been very vague and non specific, but stated that "updating may damage the machine", among other things, which is not exactly helpful, and they are not prepared to be specific about what the issues are with the Fall update, which is annoying me. This does not impress me on a machine that's not yet 3 years old, and was still being sold new during 2016, I'd be very unhappy to be forced to upgrade a machine that's so young.

  • Irish_Steve
    Irish_Steve Member Posts: 6

    Tinkerer

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    ven98 said:
    If you update to windows fall creators, it is not very likely that you will have compatibility issues with drivers like graphics, sound drivers as you can download them from the official websites. I would also create a recovery drive of the current OS, so if in case something becomes incompatible to just pre-install the earlier version of the windows.
    Fall update has already gone on to the machine automatically earlier in the month, and that was why I went looking for the specifics of creating a recovery drive, as I was aware that the recovery partition is Win 8.1, so at this stage, with a number of major updates behind me, a factory recovery would be messy in the extreme, and it was during that investigation I discovered the absence of this machine in the Fall update approval page as mentioned above, and then got the confirmation via E-mail from support, which means that if anything does go pear shaped, I have no way forward with this machine.

    Yes, there are recent drivers, they've been installed as they were released, but the way things are being phrased by the web site and support is that there will be no future updates of drivers, so this machine is effectively dead at this stage.  Fall update is not completely clean, I've had some issues with sleep mode shutting down shortly after a restart, which never happened on earlier versions, though that seems to have stabilised after going into the power settings and refreshing them. The worry is that if something does crash going forward, there may then be issues with related products like Defender, and as this machine is used for things like on line banking, I do try to keep security up to date, which may become problematic if I can't stay with the Windows update process. The machine is performing OK, there's plenty of disc space on it at the moment, so upgrading it was a long way from my priority list, but Acer's change of support policy may have changed that, with very little time to actually think about it.
  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 44,593 Trailblazer
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    >>> as if I revert to an earlier version of Windows, I will no longer have support for critical updates.

    Your machine was waranteed to work correctly with the originally-installed Win8.1. Like the earlier versions Win7 and Win8, critical updates are definitely supported for Win8.1.  Jack E/NJ

    Jack E/NJ

  • Aspi
    Aspi Member Posts: 11 New User
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    I own an Aspire V3-772G that runs on an intel core i7. My laptop is less than 3 years old too. The situation is exactly as Irish_Steve describes and I am at the stage where windows 10 creators update does not recognize my intel graphics drivers and i get black screens of death. i DO have compatibility issues with graphics drivers and the drivers for mine have NOT been updated since 2015. 
  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
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    You can update your Intel Graphics driver from Intel's website. 
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • Irish_Steve
    Irish_Steve Member Posts: 6

    Tinkerer

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    The issue I want the answer to is why the machine I have was deemed good for WIndows 10 updates, and is now no longer so. If the Fall update was a new release, I might have some sympathy for that position, but in effect, it is NOT a new version, it is an updated version of the system that has been running on this machine since it was initially released, so the answer I want is what have Microsoft changed that makes it no longer possible to support this machine. So far, no one is prepared to answer that issue.

    The "option" to downgrade back to Windows 8.1 is not an option after this length of time, there are so many things that will no longer work, it's not even worth considering reverting to a version that Microsoft were desperate to get out of use as quickly as possible.

    I don't think it's unreasonable for the manufacturer to explain why they are not prepared to continue support a machine that's less than 2 years from end of sale.
  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 44,593 Trailblazer
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    >>>I don't think it's unreasonable for the manufacturer to explain why they are not prepared to continue support>>>

    >>>>The machine is performing OK,>>>>

    The link you referred to above only suggests that your particular model hasn't been tested yet and device drivers haven't been updated. As long as the machine is running OK, updated drivers may in fact not be needed. Jack E/NJ 

    Jack E/NJ

  • Aspi
    Aspi Member Posts: 11 New User
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    Ven I tried that, but the setup program returns "error the driver being installed is not validated for this computer. Please obtain the appropriate driver from the computer manufacturer" even if it is indeed the correct intel hd 4600 graphics driver for my laptop. Getting it for intel does not work.

    JackE as you can see the updated drivers are needed.
  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 44,593 Trailblazer
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    Aspi---That may well be the case for your V3 but apparently not for the E5. The updated graphics drivers for many machines that were made by different manufacturers in the transition period from Win8 to Win8.1 to Win10 simply are not yet available for the Creators update. If the issues were noticed soon enough after Creators was installed and a restore point saved, then it could've been restored to the previous Win10 state. Short of having that option,  the only way back ***right now*** is apparently to restore the Windows system to its factory-delivered state as far as I know. Maybe ven98 will have additional suggestions to get around this dilemma for your particular machine. Jack E/NJ 

    Jack E/NJ

  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
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    Aspi said:
    Ven I tried that, but the setup program returns "error the driver being installed is not validated for this computer. Please obtain the appropriate driver from the computer manufacturer" even if it is indeed the correct intel hd 4600 graphics driver for my laptop. Getting it for intel does not work.

    JackE as you can see the updated drivers are needed.
    Download this driver(you have probably downloaded it already. Make sure it is in .exe format). Uninstall the current Intel HD driver(from device manager), turn off wifi so windows doesn't install the driver automatically, restart the device and install the new driver. If it doesn't work let windows install the Intel driver, go to device manager>dispaly adapter>Intel HD 4600(double-click on it)>driver>update driver>browse my computer for driver software and then select the path for the .exe file and it should install.
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • ven98
    ven98 ACE Posts: 4,073 Pathfinder
    Options
    JackE said:
    Aspi---That may well be the case for your V3 but apparently not for the E5. The updated graphics drivers for many machines that were made by different manufacturers in the transition period from Win8 to Win8.1 to Win10 simply are not yet available for the Creators update. If the issues were noticed soon enough after Creators was installed and a restore point saved, then it could've been restored to the previous Win10 state. Short of having that option,  the only way back ***right now*** is apparently to restore the Windows system to its factory-delivered state as far as I know. Maybe ven98 will have additional suggestions to get around this dilemma for your particular machine. Jack E/NJ 
    That is the reason why I am still running with anniversary. Windows 1703 and 1709, still have many bugs and anniversary just runs better overall, at least on my device.
    Always post the following characterisitcs of the device:
    -Model number
    -Part number(not required, but helpful)
    -CPU
    -GPU
    -Operating system

    Helios 300 and Nitro 5 users DO NOT update the BIOS to version 1.22 if you don't want the keyboard's backlight to turn off after 30 seconds even when the device is plugged in.


    Hit 'Like' if you find the answer helpful!   
    Click on 'Yes' if the comment answers your question!

  • Irish_Steve
    Irish_Steve Member Posts: 6

    Tinkerer

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    JackE said:

    >>>I don't think it's unreasonable for the manufacturer to explain why they are not prepared to continue support>>>

    >>>>The machine is performing OK,>>>>

    The link you referred to above only suggests that your particular model hasn't been tested yet and device drivers haven't been updated. As long as the machine is running OK, updated drivers may in fact not be needed. Jack E/NJ


    The web site does indeed state "If your product model is not listed in the table below, Acer has not tested the device and the drivers have not been updated for that model."

    When I then asked support for some more information, on the basis that this machine was supported for earlier releases of Win 10, I got this "As this unit is not listed on our website for the update, please do not perform the update as it may lead to a hardware damage or compatibility issues because this unit might not be eligible to run the Windows update due to the low system requirements."

    That's pretty fundamental, and not exactly informative, so when I asked for some clarification, given that the Creators update in April WAS supported, I got this "You can upgrade to windows 10 at your own discreet. Acer cannot guarantee full compatibility with all aspects of the PC. Again, Acer is not preventing users from taking advantage of the upgrade offer with Windows 10; It's possible that you may run into trouble with specific components of your PC not working well, or at all, with Windows 10.

    If there are any driver related issue, Acer will not be able to provide the drivers".

    Bluntly. the rep who wrote that doesn't have a clue, didn't read the earlier posts and didn't address the issue I raised, but what's new. I have written again, specifically asking what is in the Fall update that has meant this machine is not being supported, but so far, (no surprise there) I have not received a reply.

    For me, the situation is very simple. Acer will not stand over the Fall Creators update for my machine, and if anything fails, I am on my own, there will be no ongoing support. The fact that I in theory should not have allowed the machine to auto update earlier this month means that were I to revert back to the previous version, I will before too long be using an out of date and unsupported version of Windows 10, which is a fundamental security risk that is not recommended by the banks, and security advisors.

    The retail supplier has asked within 1 working day for a written report to confirm the situation, and are saying that the likely remedy if the report I get confirms the scenario will be to give a pro rata refund on presentation of the report and proof of purchase, and that response has been provided in a very quick time, which suggests that they are well aware of these issues with Acer.

    I will be asking Microsoft for more specific details of changes that have been made that resulted in this change from Acer, as I can see no good reason for effectively writing this machine off, there are no "major item" issues that are apparent, the CPU is an acceptable performance for Win 10, there have been recent updates to the video chip drivers, there is enough RAM to operate Windows 10, and the HDD has more than enough capacity to cope with the requirements, so the only potential issue that I can see is that there is a hardware device or related issue in the machine that they are unwilling or unable to update the drivers for. If that is the case, then it is not unreasonable to be told why, given that the machine is not that old, and within a "reasonable use" time scale.

    I've been involved with computers for close on 50 years, and worked with assembling, configuring, supporting and supplying PC's for the last 25 years, so at this stage, I do know what I'm talking about, my problem seems to be getting this issue escalated to the correct (higher) level within Acer's technical support, were I able to do so, I suspect I would get a meaningful and understandable answer very quickly.

    As to if I will be able to get that meaningful answer before I decide(or am forced) to move to a different machine, probably from another manufacturer, that's a different matter. Pity really, the Acer hardware is actually quite good, and reliable, I've used them myself for a number of years now, and sold several to customers who have not had many issues with them, so this issue coming somewhat out of the blue has caused significant upset, as it's not only causing me pain, it's also put several upgrades that were being discussed on hold until I can get a reasonable response from Acer about their future intentions and direction, it's not appropriate to supply machines to users that are possibly going to fall off support in less than 3 years. That might be acceptable for a low end device, it's not for the sorts of devices I've been supplying, which are being used for business and travel pretty much every week.




  • JackE
    JackE ACE Posts: 44,593 Trailblazer
    edited November 2017
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    >>>I will before too long be using an out of date and unsupported version of Windows 10>>>

    Because of the way Microsoft decided to change it's lifecycle policies for Win10, from my point of view as a user it was probably more realistic to try to stay with the original factory-installed WinVer especially for hardware made by different manufacturers during the transition period from Win7 to Win8 to Win8.1 to Win10. At least with Win7 and Win8x, we know to some extent when the MS support will end with some control over which freebie WinUpdates get installed.  Win10, except for enterprise edition, so far seems like a moving target almost totally dependent on automatic updates (some of them substantial and not particularly hardware-friendly to transitional machines) and moving fast toward paid-subscriptions. These are my own opinions as a user and an observer. Jack E/NJ

    Jack E/NJ

  • Irish_Steve
    Irish_Steve Member Posts: 6

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    At last, I have a more definitive answer, and while it makes some sense, it is also very frustrating that there is apparently no way to avoid the issues that it presents other than to upgrade the hardware by replacing it, which is bluntly unacceptable given that there are no valid reasons to upgrade, and I am not using any technology that requires the use of 3D programs.

    Apparently, the latest release of Windows has a significant emphasis on 3D options, the response from support says "The creators update which is recently launched is mainly designed for 3D objects which requires dedicated graphics card with higher version of RAM".

    The problem for me is that if I want to remain current with supported versions of Windows 10, I can't do that on this hardware, despite the fact that it's nowhere near end of life as far as I am concerned. That is very upsetting, given that this situation is not of my making, and I have no choice in the matter if I want to keep the hardware safe from possible intrusions or hacking.

    I will now explore what options Microsoft can offer, given it is their changes that have brought this situation about, and as a user, I have not asked for these "improvements", and I have no choice about accepting them.