Memory Upgrade Nightmare Acer Aspire Z3731-U21P...

ZundapMan

I'm about at the end of my rope!  I have now purchased 8gb of supposedly "compatible" DDR3 chips from two different suppliers and neither pair of 2gb chips seems to work.  One set of chips caused the system to "Beep" incessantly and I ended up replacing the 1gb hard drive and going back to the original memory configuration to get the system back up.  The second set "just sits there" when I attempt to boot with 8gb installed.  After taking the chips out, I was able to reboot the system once again.

 

I believe I have the BIOS settings correct for "compatible" memory, the vendors in both cases were given the full model number information and they selected and sent me the chips.  One was Crucial, the other Offtek.  Is there something I'm missing in the procedure for accepting/adding additonal RAM that might make for a long delay (built in first time power on testing? for example) which I might have been too impatient to allow to run to completion?  Has anyone else had similar problems and solved them?  If so, HOW? 

JordanB

I guess you could doublecheck crucial site to see if you have correct memory.  They have both an advisory tool and a automated system scanner.

 

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/advisor

 

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/systemscanner

ZundapMan

I used their scanner before ordering the Crucial memory, but I let it sit on my shelf for over a year before attempting to install it.  I was leery of the process of opening the case, in part because I've had problems with other Acers that had to do with the fact that they tend to be shipped with less than the best hard drives, and this one was already three or four years old.  My fears were apparently justified, as I ended up having to replace the original 1 TB WD drive when I opened the case to try to put in the Crucial memory.  I finally ended up taking the machine to a local repair shop I've used and trusted for years.  They were eventually able to revive the computer, installing a new drive I'd ordered and reinstalling the original RAM only.  They were nice, as they also ordered RAM from their supplier which DID NOT WORK, but which they did not charge me for.  After I got it back, I ordered chips from Offtek that they identified as appropriate for the Z3731-U21P, and those chips also did not work.

 

I am wondering if there is a BIOS setting which might be sensitive to slight mismatches in speed, for example, that I could turn off, or some other dumb thing like a jumper block that is not mentioned but which must be changed in order to expand the RAM.  I really "need" the extra 4gb, and am still quite happy with the 3.2gh dual processor Intel chip that runs my system, as well as the fact that the new HD that I installed has twice the buffer size as the original, thereby speeding up my boot times a little bit.  The original chips came from KENSINGTON.  They have not responded to my inquiry re this system, neither has Offteck.  Fortunately, this time I ordered their RAM via my Amazon Prime subscritpion, so I can get my money bacvk, but I've wasted almost 8 weeks including a couple of weeks without the computer already.

 

ANY SUGGESTIONS?

ZundapMan

just found a mention of an Microsoft System Configuration "issue" which has apparently been a part of my system since it was purchased.  The processor chip is a 3.2 ghz "dual proceessor" Pentium chip, but MSCONFIG in the advanced boot settings had it classfied as a single processor.  I made the change and rebooted, and the system seemed to load a little faster!  Then I set the maximum memory to 8128 even though the chips were not in the slot and rebooted again.  This time it was a bit slower, and when I checked, the memory maximum had been "unchecked" and set to 0, and the number of processors got reset to 1! This issue came up when another user was trying to upgrade a different system and kept getting the available memory information displayed incorrectly by the system, even though the BIOS gave the correct RAM size. 

JordanB

I don't know much about your system, but I assume the link below is your product?

 

http://www.cnet.com/products/acer-aspire-z3731-ur21p-core-2-duo-e6700-2-66-ghz-4-gb-1-tb-lcd-21-5/specs/

 

I'm not familiar with the settings that you're referring to in MSCONFIG or BIOS, so maybe someone else will chime in.  When it comes to "cores" vs "processors", I'm fairly ignorant.

 

The crucial memory is supposed to be guaranteed to work if you used their scanner, so if they sent you the wrong memory or memory that didn't work, I would ask them to exchange it.

 

I assume the following link is your computer and would have the correct memory (that would work).  I guess you could double check your part numbers against the link below (if you think my link is correct).

 

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/Acer/aspire-az3731

 

Edit: It was a little confusing when I looked for the computer on crucials website.  They had Z3730 but no Z3731.  The only thing that could find is that AZ-3731.  I have no idea what the diff is between AZ and Z.  If the AZ isn't your computer, then I couldn't find the Z3731 on their website.  Maybe they don't even have memory for your computer.

 

 

 

ZundapMan

I'm now thinking that there may be some relatively obscure BIOS setting that is getting in the way of my Memory upgrade efforts.  The latest symptom for either of the two sets of RAM chips I now have is that the Acer Aspire Z3731-U21P just "sits there" and eventually tries to boot itself from the CD/DVD drive when either set of additional RAM chips is in the 2nd pair of slots.  The "processor" settings in Miccrosoft Windows 7(X64) are pretty obscure and seem to be subject to "resetting" when the system has been subjected to certain kinds of hardware changes.  I did notice a slight improvement in "boot speed" after updating the MSCONFIG screen to reflect the fact that I have a "dual processor" chip, and so far that change has not "gone away"... It did get reset when I also set the RAM to the maximum address space without actually putting any new chips in place and rebooting.  It looks as though the BIOS manages that for Microsoft and the switch in MSCONFIG only makes sense when you want to "reserve" some of the RAM for other hardware to use outside of the scope of Windows, or something like that.

ZundapMan

Originally, ACER did not have the Z3731 on its' web site either...I remember pointing that out to people at Acer back in the day... Apparently my computer was "too good" in some ways.  Later "All-in-One" computers tended to have less CPU power and most seemed to be a bit smaller.  Also, the original Windows 7 X64 software load for the device was "full of bugs" from Microsoft.  It took them about another two years to shake down their support for X64 chipsets to the point where things stabilized and got faster.  before that, their internal code masked things and was horribly inefficient, using 32 bit code in a lot of places where 64 bit code could increas efficiency...

JordanB

How many memory slots does your computer have?

 

Are you also trying to use the existing memory that came with it?

 

If those links I posted earlier are accurate, then it has 4 slots and 2 banks of 2????

 

So you're trying to put 2x2x2x2  ram ???

 

http://www.computermemoryupgrade.net/maximum-standard-memory-slots.html

 

If your computer has 4 slots and 2 banks of 2, then you may have to purchase two identical 4 GB kits (2x2 ) so it adds up to 8 GB total. In other words, you'd need four 2GB sticks of ram that are identical (from the same vendor)

 

Sometimes existing memory doesn't play nice with new memory.

 

It sounds like you've put some time in to trying to figure it out.  Might be time to send it to the computer shop.  Personally, I always go with default bios settings and do a clean install of OS (or use erecovery).

 

One last question........what is the current BIOS version that you have installed on your computer?

ZundapMan

I've tried two different sets of 4 gb "expansion kit" two chip RAM kits.  I understand the "don't play nice" issues, but before going to the expense of yet another RAM order for 8 gb rather than the two different sets of 4 gb chips I already have, in addition to the two chips that work, which are the ONLY ones that work, I need to know if there is something in the BIOS that is enforcing/reacting to slight timing differences or errors in the pairs of chips that may be "built into" the BIOS start up routines that needs to be reset before attempting to reboot with "New" RAM. 

 

According to the shop that "couldn't fix" my problem, and could not find new RAM that worked,  the BIOS is current for the Z3731.  Back when I first got this box, I went to war with ACER because they did not have the Aspire Z3731 on their web site lists of "Model Names" so I could not even register it.  The RAM vendors seem to have inherited that issue, so Kensington, the original manufacturer has no information on my system in their database to this day! 

 

I also cannot find out for sure if the BIOS has a built in "ram error and timing test" algorithm, which "sets/resets" the clock or errror table for a bank of RAM when it is first encountered, and what particular Menu pick on the BIOS menu tells the BIOS to "start over from scratch" with its' testing since once a bank of ram has been tested, any error lockouts are constant and do not need to be recomputed/tested.  I'm hoping someone that knows answers to my question reads this...I'm not "up to speed" on modern RAM manufacturing protocols, but a long time ago the protocols for "error testing" RAM and "locking out" bad memory locations in a chipset were pretty well known and understood, I just don't know if the manufacturers offloaded it to the BIOS software or do it "on board" the chip as part of the manufacturing process.

 

I'm a retired "cheapskate" that back in the day actually wrote assembler code so that I could re-clock a CPM Thompson Big Board kit from 2.2 mhz to 4 mhz and programmed the code changes into an EPROM chip "by hand." So I could have a CP/M system that was almost twice as fast as the standard one.   In those days a bank of 64K (the full address space) of the Z80, cost me almost $800.00 for the 4 ghz chips... And... I had to desolder the 2.2 ghz ram so I could install them...  My frustration is mostly with the lack of access to adequate documentation which the manufacturing engineering folks must of had at one time. 

ZundapMan

My system SNID is: ***

or full serial number :  ***

 

I'm not sure how to find out which BIOS is currently installed.  Is there a way to query it form within Windows Home Premium 7 X64, the system which came with the hardware? 

 

It was my understanding that the "standard" for most BIOS software was that it was automatically capable of detecting and accepting physical changes in the memory configuration.  It is possible that the process takes more time than has been alloted before a decision is/was made to turn off power when the system "just sits there" when attempting to boot with additonal chips installed.  I have been reluctant to "wait 10 minutes" when things appear to be "hung up." So have the techs in the shop where I took it.  It the system is "Hanging" because it does not have the right "figure out how much RAM is available" defaults set in the BIOS, I would like to know what BIOS menu setting to change, and what sequence of effort is appropriate after the change is made to insure that the BIOS is ready to evaluate/reevaluate 8 gb of RAM before I assume that all the RAM chips I have from two different vendors and the original ones all must be replaced in order to get a system that runs with 8 gb.

 

My BIOS definitely does not have password protection set.  It currently has the biggest Video RAM allocation I can give it rather than the default which is way too small for the Intel Graphics chipset to run efficiently.  (Repeated performance testing done on that issue.)  There is a "reset to default" option in the BIOS which I persnally have not tried, but I suspect that the shop did because it came back with the RAM apeture for the video reset to the default.

 

As a consequence of the highly likely hardware failure of the original WD hard drive, and the changes that the new replacement made, the system boots very slightly faster than it did before replacing the drive while still retaining the "Green" perormance of the original drive.  The only real difference between the two drives is that WD increased the available internal cache from 32 the 64, making the processor work a little less during boot-up and full block fetch operations from the drive.

 

[edited for privacy-please do not post personal or unique information such as but not limited to full names, email addresses, phone numbers, serial numbers, etc.]

JordanB

I hear ya on the assembler. My previous adventures with IBM mainframes and DEC VAX-11/780's last century don't help me much with PCs.
It's easy to get left behind as technology moves so quickly.

An easy way to find out things on the Internet is to use Google. Www.google.com
You would just search "how to determine BIOS version windows 7"
Google knows everything.

http://www.7tutorials.com/6-ways-learning-your-computers-motherboard-bios-version

If you have ram compatibility problems, most any vendor of ram will tell you....."that's just the nature of dram". I've never had time to figure out what they mean when they say that.....I just accept it to be true rather than waste hours trying to figure it out.

Now I'm going to be honest.....if you're messing with BIOS settings, but you don't know how to get a simple, basic thing like your BIOS version, then it's generally considered that you should not be messing with the BIOS settings. You should reset the BIOS to defaults.

If you have compatible ram, it should be plug-n-play and just work right out of the box. There's no need to mess with BIOS settings (unless you're working with a computer that you built yourself and an enthusiast/gaming board).

Good luck.

ZundapMan

@JordanB... "Thats just the nature of DRAM" is a marketing ploy that has been extremely profitable for RAM vendors in this age of cheap, throw away manufacturing.  The enhancements which have occurred in the internal structures that make up DRAM chips have played havoc with the characteristics of RAM being "tested" by older BIOS procedures sp much so that BIOS enhancements for the Acer All in One lines have followed advances in Microsoft's Windows 7. 8.1 and so on.  Having a system that was designed around the plans for Microsoft's post Win7 strategy, but before Win 8 was released, selecting the right BIOS for a system which will live out its life as a Win7 system is not as easy as "make sure it is the latest bios."  The difference between "certified" and "uncertified" RAM for example, is critical to the issues of BIOS compatability in this day and age.  Without specifics regarding the process used in my BIOS, I cannot be sure that the "sits there and does nothing" symptom is being caused by defetive RAM or software, and to me, that is unconsionable witholding of essential engineering support for a system with a lot of service life remaining.

 

Note: I've been on the bleeding edge since 1960.  I'm not "keeping up" the way I used to, but I still try.

ZundapMan

The BIOS from AMI reports a version P01-A3 with a date of 12/03/2010... Unfortunately Acer seems to have taken down the download site for "off waranty" machines making it impossible for me to check to see if my BIOS is the lates, or... to download a newer one if it is obsolete! 

 

This is the same kind of unsustainable idiocity which led to the "orphan" status of my Verison 1 $800.00 iPad, and my similar early release Apple TV device.  The electronics are still perectly good, but the software has been used to force people to scrap things beore the end of their service lives.  THIS IS NUTS!

JordanB

Ok.  Now we're making some progress.  Let me ask you another easy question.

 

When you remove all of the ram, and then only install the ram that came with your computer, does your computer work?

JordanB

When I check the Acer download page for Aspire all-in-one Z3731, I get the page below. 

 

 

It's possible that I am making a mistake on your model number.  It's also possible Acer has made a mistake by not having your installed BIOS version listed/available on their website.  And of course it's possible that you or your computer shop has made a mistake by flashing the wrong BIOS version. 

 

Anyway, you probably don't want that Linux BIOS since you're running Windows.  But according to the website, P01.A2 is the latest BIOS for your computer.  Again, that may be a mistake.  I'm just not sure.

ZundapMan

Unfortunately, I'm not prepared to "back date" my BIOS, especially given the wierd status of online and historical records for this unit.  AMI sometimes posts updates to their software on their web sites.  I do not believe that I ever "falashed" a new BIOS into this system.  The technicians were reluctant too, for the same reason. 

 

My next step is going to be, once again, opening up the case for this computer and recording the entire serial number/label information from the two Kensington 2gb chips which "came with" the commputer, and which still are the only chips "that work."  The shop tech was able to get the system to recognize an additonal 1gb of RAM from stuff lying around in their cultch pile, so it appears to me rigt now that vendors are shipping me the worng chips. 

ZundapMan

My BIOS internally reports a date later than anything on your web site for my system.  When I bought it, I had a hell of a time "registering" for warranty because your web site at the time did not have a "Model Number" in its' verification table for my machine.  Mine is one of the "hottest" processor configurations for the particular motherboard in this Aspire Z... series so I would like to upgrade its' RAM rather than replace it, especially since, for most of my requirements, "It suits me just fine." This is especially the case since I just replaced the weakest part, the Hard Drive which may well have failed due to bearing wear after four or five years in service. 

ZundapMan

I'm "done with Acer" after this... My problem stems from the fact that their records regarding the maufacture of this relatively rare device were not shared with vendors, or even posted to their own web site until about 9 months after the device was manufactured and I could not find it in the "pop up list" on Acer's web site because it had not been entered!  Apparently Kensington who manufactured the original chips is just about as bad.  I bought "old stock" Kensington memory from a third party web site last year in despiration, and 8gb of "new" memory DID NOT WORK even though the speed/pin out (240 pin) etc. were reported to be exactly the same as my original chips!  The stuff I received was obviously from a different production run, but three different memory vendors claimed their chips were compatible with this machine, and yet, NONE WORK!

doughjohn

Hi

 

Piriform Speccy gives me this, along with uite a lot of other stuff...

Slot #1
    Type    DDR3
    Size    8192 MBytes
    Manufacturer    Samsung
    Max Bandwidth    PC3-12800 (800 MHz)
    Part Number    M471B1G73DB0-YK0
    Serial Number    328347847
    Week/year    33 / 15

 

Timing table
        Frequency    CAS# Latency    RAS# To CAS#    RAS# Precharge    tRAS    tRC    Voltage
    JEDEC #1    381.0 MHz    5.0    5    5    14    19    1.350 V
    JEDEC #2    457.1 MHz    6.0    6    6    16    22    1.350 V
    JEDEC #3    533.3 MHz    7.0    7    7    19    26    1.350 V
    JEDEC #4    609.5 MHz    8.0    8    8    22    30    1.350 V
    JEDEC #5    685.7 MHz    9.0    9    9    24    33    1.350 V
    JEDEC #6    761.9 MHz    10.0    10    10    27    37    1.350 V
    JEDEC #7    800.0 MHz    11.0    11    11    28    39    1.350 V

 

and I wonder if it may give you some insight into your particular problem.

 

Also it strikes me that you could try a linux as a live distro and negate any Microsoft parameters that are causing grief.  Open a terminal / command line screen CLI and try typing...

 

sudo free -m

sudo vmstat -s

sudo top

sudo htop

sudo dmidecode -t 17

 

If in doubt please ask.