Loadline Calibration on Helios Predator? PH18-71

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MikeyTaylor1991
MikeyTaylor1991 Member Posts: 3 New User

Good afternoon,

To start, i would like to say that I have purchased this laptop brand new a few days and I know it will be out of warranty as it's a 2023 model, so I'm someone can help me with this despite it being a BIOS request, and I'm sure it's been asked many times before at this point…

I have recently purchased a PH18-71 laptop and although I love it, it has very poor thermal control and regularly thermal throttles under any kind of load, meaning it can't reach the CPUs designed output before reaching the TDP value.

I have read hundreds of reports on how this laptop has undervolt potential locked down under ACERs firmware, even going as far as to add EFI_WRITE_PROTECTION, even though there's an undervolt protection toggle in the BIOS! So I guess I'm out of luck with that option... (Though ACER do allow overclocking which would cause way, way more problems and any undervolt would anyway!)

Fortunately after days of researching, I have found a way to access the second Advanced BIOS menu, and although all undervolt options are blocked the AC_LL value can be changed. After adjusting it from 1.7mΩ to 0.8mΩ the voltage drop caused temperatures to drop significantly without effecting the power output too much and almost stop thermal throttling.

The improvement is quite noticeable with thermals, and performance is somewhat varying. E.G

Stock Settings:

  • Final Fantasy 14 benchmark - 28,400 points with 20% Average Thermal Throttling over the test.
  • Cinebench R23 - 27,850 points with 2% Average Thermal Throttling over the test (this always happened between passes, when a new render started, temps seemed quite stable between)

With AC_LL Turned down to 0.8mΩ:

  • Final Fantasy 14 benchmark 27,770 point score and only hit the thermal throttle for a second later in the run (Average 0%)
  • Cinebench R23 - 26,300 with no thermal throttling (this was only 2 passes however so likely will be lower when I do a 10 minute test)

These results seem pretty good, with only a slight reduction in multicore performance (forgot to check average clock speeds over both runs). I'll probably try reducing it a little further, but reducing AC_LL to 0.6mΩ may have been too much as Cinebench only scored 22,000 which is a significant reduction. Or, it's CEP interfering which I also can't see an option to change in the BIOS Core IA/VR settings. I think it does have some kind of CEP though, as the Core VR Fast Vmode can only be adjusted if CEP is active according to the description box at the RHS of the settings.

To make the most of this option though, I need to know if this laptop has a Loadline Calibration (LLC) setting? I would like to try and adjust this setting to lower VDroop, which would allow me to reduce the AC_LL slightly further without the droop causing stability problems?

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I have attached a screenshot of the Core IA/VR settings screen where loadline resides, but if you could advise me on where to find the LLC setting I'd be greatly appreciative.

Also, I don't know if anyone from ACER actually reads these posts and I know this is an unlikely request, but there are a LOT of people online struggling with thermals on this 2 year old laptop. We would love for the undervolt protection to be unlocked on this model so that we can safely adjust voltages to maximise the performance of the CPU.

Can you please advise on how we can get undervolt protection unlocked correctly and safely? It makes no sense to allow overclocking of this laptop as the CPU will be damaged rapidly, but allowing undervolting would give us longevity and performance. I don't want to think this is a purposeful design to shorten the lifespan of the laptop, but the lack of help on this subject is really hard to ignore!

Thanks for any help you can provide,
Mikey Taylor

Answers

  • StevenGen
    StevenGen ACE Posts: 14,801 Trailblazer
    edited July 9

    Can you provide a guide of how you unlocked the PH18-71 second and additional Advance bios settings menu, like you said…."after days of researching, I have found a way to access the second Advanced BIOS menu"…as this is a useful thing to know.

    Also be aware that Acer has locked the bios because of warranty and economic reason costs. As these PH18-71 13th Gen cpu and the PH18-72 14th Gen cpu have the Intel overheating problems before Acer knew that they had a problem, that has been fixed by Intel with the supposed cpu microcode update that Acer has provided in your PH18-71 models bios version 1.12 which is also included in version 1.16 the last bios update. By Acer allowing the undervolt feature to be used, this would have caused huge and further financial costs for Acer on top of what the Intel problems has already cost, so be aware of these problems also as Acer is trying to run a business at a profit😁

    If this answers your question and solved your query please "Click on Yes" or "Click on Like" if you find my answer useful👍

  • MikeyTaylor1991
    MikeyTaylor1991 Member Posts: 3 New User

    Of course, you can use the method HERE to get into the second Advanced menu and the file you're looking for in the Github is "PH16-71(18-71)&PTX17-71_Insyde_BiosUnlock.cfg".

    It involves patching the BIOS, and it disappears each time you close the laptop. In fact, I've found that even closing the lid removes my AC_LL override… Although, my voltage limit of 1400mV seems to stay which is the important part, even if ACER didn't fix the issues, you can manually limit the voltage yourself through the second advanced menu.

    You must have Supervisor password set in the main BIOS, and toggle Secure Boot off so that you can run the EFI patcher from the USB. Secure boot cannot be turned off without a Supervisor password set. All the instructions are laid out plain and simple in that post.

    It is a very simple process, but please note, it's worrying the first time that you use this as it takes around 5 minutes of waiting. It looks like nothing is happening but just leave it alone for a while and it should boot to windows :)

    I will never understand why they lock undervolting but allow for overclocking to be honest. Overclocking will cause serious degredation in these laptops with the amount of heat that you can produce, yuo can even turn off TDP limits. Super dangerous!

  • MikeyTaylor1991
    MikeyTaylor1991 Member Posts: 3 New User

    Also, i believe that CEP is the reason that dropping the AC_LL to 60 causes such throttling. I believe the voltage drops below the Vtrip value set in that hidden BIOS menu.

    Tonight, I'm going to attempt to lower the Vtrip value to lower voltage further without throttling, and if I can't lower the Vtrip value then I'll probably try disabling Fast Vmode as that is what controls the Vtrip in the first place.

    It also controls ICCMAX and other current settings but… It's a risk I'm willing to take :D Voltage limit is set at 1400mV so should be fine.

    image-8f5052eb9a77c-487c.png

    image-80de271a92158-612d.png
  • eGomes
    eGomes Member Posts: 5,849 Guru

    @MikeyTaylor1991,

    Holding Fn + Tab while starting the computer, before entering the UEFI firmware.

    Doesn't that make those same options available?

  • StevenGen
    StevenGen ACE Posts: 14,801 Trailblazer

    The Fn+Tab keys method doesn't work in bringing the additional Advance bios settings out, you need to use the methos above [GUIDE] Unlocking Hidden BIOS on Nitro and Predator-Helios/Neo/Triton Laptops using SREP which is an extensive guide of how to do all this, as that is the only way that it will work.

    If this answers your question and solved your query please "Click on Yes" or "Click on Like" if you find my answer useful👍