Predator Orion 3000 (PO3-630) CPU temp up to 91°C - what to do?

2

Answers

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    StevenGen said:
    Pippino said:
    Hi, I've just bought a new Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 with 11th generation CPU (11700f), 32 Gb ram, RTX3070.
    The CPU goes up to 91 only for starting Cyberpunk and staying on the main menu. During gameplay with CPU at about 50% it keeps 86°C with peaks of 90°C. FPS are fine, but I haven't dared to play long with that temp to avoid cooking CPU!

    Wanna laugh? If I play Borderlands (a game from 2009!!!) it peaks 91°degrees with an usage of 20-30% of CPU. Nothing changes if I run those with the case-tower side opened and removed!

    (Ventilation was set in GAME mode, btw)

    Before using GAME mode (useless for my issue) this happened: yesterday, after a few hours of Borderlands, CPU must has gone in self-protection because I experienced a drastical drop of FPS (under 30fps). I checked CPU temp and it was 91°C, so I switched the fans to GAME mode, from AUTO mode (and I heard a noticeable and loudy fan speed increase, hence they were going slow before manual switching). No matter what I had to exit the game for it to cool off. And I ask myself what's the AUTO mode for, if it can't detect a heat danger and increase fans speed to the required speed?

    Basically I've bought a pre-built desktop made for gaming and it can't run a game from 2009 without risking to cook the CPU (91°C).

    What should I do? Does any of you had a positive experience with Acer Technical Support and Customer care?

    Thank you!


    PS: Basically I want it repaired or a substitution with a new not-overheating unit. Otherwise I would like my money back since those performances are not-compliant with a gaming desktop and unhealthy for the processor and motherboard.
    Only as a last desperate attempt (in case Acer support denies the issue) I would try a technical solution by myself, maybe replacing CPU dissipator...but I have no idea about what to do. Any advice?

    Seeing that your Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 with 11th generation CPU (11700f), 32 Gb ram, RTX3070. is under warranty and only new I would NOT touch it and/or open it and/or change anything on it, send it back to Acer Service in your area and tell them about the overheating issues and that there could be something wrong with either the CPU paste or its fan and/or case fans, as opening this desktop could void your warranty and Acer will reject your service call. Also and as its advised in the comments, Acer’s fans and cooling solutions are at best very average and not of the highest quality for a 10th or 11th Gen i7 CPU and especially with an RTX-3070Ti that pushes it further and therefore you will need to upgrade to the superior CPU cooling solution like the Noctua NH-U9S series (that fits as another community member has fitted to a PO3-6xx) type dry cooling or fitting a superior AIO water cooling like the Gigabyte Waterforce and also upgrading to the Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm superior and quitter case fans for your Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 to operate at optimal temps while gaming and general use.  

    Btw and just as an example as I speak from experience with a much more intense and higher end system, as I’ve just built an AMD Ryzen 9 desktop system with the 5950X CPU a similar Gigabyte RTX-3070Ti 8GB Eagle and 64GB DDR4-4000 RAM and I’m using the excellent Gigabyte Waterforce AIO 360mm water cooler and 3x Noctua NF-F12 PWM case fans (btw I don’t go for all that RGB nonsense the only RGB on this system is the Gigabyte 3x GPU and Waterforce 3x fans that I had no control over). Also and note, that this in due that I play hard core games and use very intensive CPU and GPU demanding software and I have no problems with overheating so this is just an example of what can be done with higher end cooling components to control overheating.



    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of  If you want to CPU to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and all set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mention in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the cpu cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pat for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boot can run all the time and this system will be amazing!
  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    this site really sucks. These are not typos, characters literally disappear from my posts.

    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of  If you want to CPU to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and all set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mention in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the cpu cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pat for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boot can run all the time and this system will be amazing!

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    this site really sucks. These are not typos, characters literally disappear from my posts.

    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of  If you want to control the CPU fan a little to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and both front and back set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mentioned in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the cpu cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pat for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boot can run all the time and this system will be amazing!



  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    this site really sucks. These are not typos, characters literally disappear from my posts.

    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of case)  If you want to control the CPU fan a little to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and both front and back set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mentioned in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the cpu cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pat for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boot can run all the time and this system will be amazing!




  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    this site really sucks. These are not typos, characters literally disappear from my posts.

    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of case)  If you want to control the CPU fan a little to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and both front and back set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mentioned in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the CPU cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pay for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boost can run all the time and this system will be amazing!

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    this site really sucks. These are not typos, characters literally disappear from my posts.

    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the intake and exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of case)  If you want to control the CPU fan a little to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and both front and back set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mentioned in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the cpu cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pat for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boot can run all the time and this system will be amazing!

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    edited January 2022
    Sorry all, I am not sure why this is happening on this site. I click preview and it still posts my text. I think my browser security settings are blocking some things on the site and causing this.Sorry for making a mess of the posts. Anyone know if I can remove a post? I cannot see the option other than quote and edit.
  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    edited January 2022
    I cannot even edit anything now. What's up with this site? I turned off all security settings in my Browser and still having issues with the site. Now edit is gone completely from my messages. I was going truncate the post to just <POST ERROR>, to make them all small, so the posts would take up 1/8th of what it is now, but cannot edit anymore. Anyone? Edit came back for this one post after I posted it, but only for this one. Can I only edit the last post I made?
  • Pippino
    Pippino Member Posts: 14

    Tinkerer
    Please any mod would clean this mess? :)

    CR_apollo, I appreciate your advice and enthusiasm but I've already fixed the desktop with the Noctua, a 10 minutes job without having to remove motherboard.

    I got 20-25 degrees less in temp under stress now. 

    I'm not sure what else to ask from a cpu cooler. And I'm not sure it's even worth the effort trying to install other coolers that require unmounted motherboard. Noctua is literally 4 screws and thermal paste. Job done.

    Why would anyone should drop Noctua (been tested and noob-proof) for a supposed better cooler that:
    1) it's not been tested
    2) requires dismounting motherboard? 


    Voiding the warranty? Oh yes! But you can install the stock cooler and no one will notice. It is literally 4 screws and thermal paste. And also consider the technical support would with any probability re-apply the thermal paste and show me their middle finger since temperature range of 11700f is higher than 91 degrees. :) 

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    edited January 2022

    No worries, I posted it for others too. I got it installed without any extra work than making the bottom holes of the mount for the Zalman a little bigger to fit over the existing back plate posts. The screws fit too! Took me 20 as I did not want to make the holes too big and took my time with that. Ran Heavyload program, check that out to really see how well your system cools, if you want. It took 10 minutes for it to hit 72, then when that happened, it dropped to 55 and hoovered between 55-58 with the odd 59. Let that go for another 5 minutes and then turned it off because it was working at keeping it there and I would have not seen any different. RPMs where at 2259 and the max is 2650 for this guy. Best 50$ I spent! No sense in posting a pic of the actual drilling aspect for the holes, but even if you go through the upper side by mistake, use a washer later :) Just do not go too wide! BTW it idles at 28-31 with boost on at all times.



  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    edited January 2022
    To give a little context with some gaming names, Payday 2 VR gives CPU temps of 55-58 degrees in a room where the temperature rises to 28 because of the heat coming from the system. While the video card with some tweaking using MSI Afterburner to increase fan based on temp... from 50 degrees up, it increases 1% per degree. The GPU is set to favour power over temp to maintain highest performance, but the fan to react with that... the temps do not go over 75, rarely, on the GPU and mostly hover around 69-73. Hot spot sits around 76-80 with odd spikes of 84, and very rare cases 85 for the hot spot max. This heatsink and fan rarely allows the CPU to hit 60 under major load conditions!

    Strongly recommend the

    Zalman Computer Noise Prevention System with Silent Fan Pure Copper Heatsink CPU Cooler CNPS9500AT


    And if you do not want to take the system apart to use the screws and bolts that come with it, make the mount bottom holes 1mm wider half way from the bottom to mid of the holes and fit it over the current back plate posts. Fasten it with the screws included with the Zalman!




  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 34,219 Trailblazer
    And of course that link is only good for Canada...
    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    Pippino said:
    Please any mod would clean this mess? :)

    CR_apollo, I appreciate your advice and enthusiasm but I've already fixed the desktop with the Noctua, a 10 minutes job without having to remove motherboard.

    I got 20-25 degrees less in temp under stress now. 

    I'm not sure what else to ask from a cpu cooler. And I'm not sure it's even worth the effort trying to install other coolers that require unmounted motherboard. Noctua is literally 4 screws and thermal paste. Job done.

    Why would anyone should drop Noctua (been tested and noob-proof) for a supposed better cooler that:
    1) it's not been tested
    2) requires dismounting motherboard? 


    Voiding the warranty? Oh yes! But you can install the stock cooler and no one will notice. It is literally 4 screws and thermal paste. And also consider the technical support would with any probability re-apply the thermal paste and show me their middle finger since temperature range of 11700f is higher than 91 degrees. :) 


    No worries, I posted it for others too. I got it installed without any extra work than making the bottom holes of the mount for the Zalman a little bigger to fit over the existing back plate posts. The screws fit too! Took me 20 as I did not want to make the holes too big and took my time with that. Ran Heavyload program, check that out to really see how well your system cools, if you want. It took 10 minutes for it to hit 72, then when that happened, it dropped to 55 and hoovered between 55-58 with the odd 59. Let that go for another 5 minutes and then turned it off because it was working at keeping it there and I would have not seen any different. RPMs where at 2259 and the max is 2650 for this guy. Best 50$ I spent! No sense in posting a pic of the actual drilling aspect for the holes, but even if you go through the upper side by mistake, use a washer later :) Just do not go too wide!

    Image preview

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    Image preview
    Image preview
    Image preview
    Here is the completed images for this CPU heatsink and fan. Although no RGB lights, the other lights shine off of the cooper fins. lol

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    For anyone searching around these days for the best replacement heatsink and fan for the i5 or i7 systems, I came across this one. I ordered it but have not installed it yet, however, it is designed to fit LGA11XX which is the same as LGA1200 for the screw holes on the boards. I'll update the post when I do this eventually, but something to consider for those looking.

    Because they designed this heat-sink to work on many models with their mounting kit which requires to pull the system apart and put in a new plate, I have not had the time to pull the system apart yet to confirm everything, but do not pay attention to the Amazon sizes listed for these. In the pics, you see the true size of it, by clicking on one of the actual images to bring it up in a popup window, there is the actual size listed there. Even appears that you will be able to have all RAM sticks in with this one. Below is vid and below that's the amazon listing. For 50$ total Canadian, it's a steal!



    Images with size

  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    FYI the one I posted above other than the one he recommends, it works better than a water cooling CPU. Everyone recommends the Noctua NH-U9S because they have it in theirs, but I know as a professional IT person, the Zalman is better. I just need to prove it on the posts once I have the pics and install guides
  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    StevenGen said:
    Pippino said:
    Hi, I've just bought a new Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 with 11th generation CPU (11700f), 32 Gb ram, RTX3070.
    The CPU goes up to 91 only for starting Cyberpunk and staying on the main menu. During gameplay with CPU at about 50% it keeps 86°C with peaks of 90°C. FPS are fine, but I haven't dared to play long with that temp to avoid cooking CPU!

    Wanna laugh? If I play Borderlands (a game from 2009!!!) it peaks 91°degrees with an usage of 20-30% of CPU. Nothing changes if I run those with the case-tower side opened and removed!

    (Ventilation was set in GAME mode, btw)

    Before using GAME mode (useless for my issue) this happened: yesterday, after a few hours of Borderlands, CPU must has gone in self-protection because I experienced a drastical drop of FPS (under 30fps). I checked CPU temp and it was 91°C, so I switched the fans to GAME mode, from AUTO mode (and I heard a noticeable and loudy fan speed increase, hence they were going slow before manual switching). No matter what I had to exit the game for it to cool off. And I ask myself what's the AUTO mode for, if it can't detect a heat danger and increase fans speed to the required speed?

    Basically I've bought a pre-built desktop made for gaming and it can't run a game from 2009 without risking to cook the CPU (91°C).

    What should I do? Does any of you had a positive experience with Acer Technical Support and Customer care?

    Thank you!


    PS: Basically I want it repaired or a substitution with a new not-overheating unit. Otherwise I would like my money back since those performances are not-compliant with a gaming desktop and unhealthy for the processor and motherboard.
    Only as a last desperate attempt (in case Acer support denies the issue) I would try a technical solution by myself, maybe replacing CPU dissipator...but I have no idea about what to do. Any advice?

    Seeing that your Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 with 11th generation CPU (11700f), 32 Gb ram, RTX3070. is under warranty and only new I would NOT touch it and/or open it and/or change anything on it, send it back to Acer Service in your area and tell them about the overheating issues and that there could be something wrong with either the CPU paste or its fan and/or case fans, as opening this desktop could void your warranty and Acer will reject your service call. Also and as its advised in the comments, Acer’s fans and cooling solutions are at best very average and not of the highest quality for a 10th or 11th Gen i7 CPU and especially with an RTX-3070Ti that pushes it further and therefore you will need to upgrade to the superior CPU cooling solution like the Noctua NH-U9S series (that fits as another community member has fitted to a PO3-6xx) type dry cooling or fitting a superior AIO water cooling like the Gigabyte Waterforce and also upgrading to the Noctua NF-F12 PWM 120mm superior and quitter case fans for your Predator Orion 3000 PO3-630 to operate at optimal temps while gaming and general use.  

    Btw and just as an example as I speak from experience with a much more intense and higher end system, as I’ve just built an AMD Ryzen 9 desktop system with the 5950X CPU a similar Gigabyte RTX-3070Ti 8GB Eagle and 64GB DDR4-4000 RAM and I’m using the excellent Gigabyte Waterforce AIO 360mm water cooler and 3x Noctua NF-F12 PWM case fans (btw I don’t go for all that RGB nonsense the only RGB on this system is the Gigabyte 3x GPU and Waterforce 3x fans that I had no control over). Also and note, that this in due that I play hard core games and use very intensive CPU and GPU demanding software and I have no problems with overheating so this is just an example of what can be done with higher end cooling components to control overheating.



    One more thing I would like to add about the auto, game and settings for the fans, those only control the exhaust fans, not the CPU. (front and back of case) If you want to CPU to increase with those settings, make the CPU fan run at 3300 RPM when game mode is on and down to 2300 when set to manual and all set to the lowest settings for the fan speeds, you need to turn off the Smart Sense in the BIOS. However, like I mention in my previous posts, they use stock cooler for the CPU, so I would upgrade this, and use a professional to maintain warranty if you need to, but if you want to keep temps low, turn the power management to 99% max CPU. This will prevent the turbo boost (overclocking) from kicking on at all times, till you can upgrade the cpu cooler. These are gaming systems and I am surprised to see Acer use stock CPU coolers, but for the price you pat for these machines, all the hardware is amazing for that price. Paying to install a better cpu cooler will still keep below the cost of a system with similar specs. Once the cooling is all taken care of, turbo boot can run all the time and this system will be amazing!
  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter

    No worries, I posted it for others too. I got it installed without any extra work than making the bottom holes of the mount for the Zalman a little bigger to fit over the existing back plate posts. The screws fit too! Took me 20 as I did not want to make the holes too big and took my time with that. Ran Heavyload program, check that out to really see how well your system cools, if you want. It took 10 minutes for it to hit 72, then when that happened, it dropped to 55 and hoovered between 55-58 with the odd 59. Let that go for another 5 minutes and then turned it off because it was working at keeping it there and I would have not seen any different. RPMs where at 2259 and the max is 2650 for this guy. Best 50$ I spent! No sense in posting a pic of the actual drilling aspect for the holes, but even if you go through the upper side by mistake, use a washer later :) Just do not go too wide!

    Image preview

  • messer89
    messer89 Member Posts: 54 Devotee WiFi Icon
    edited January 2022
    CR_Apollo said:

    No worries, I posted it for others too. I got it installed without any extra work than making the bottom holes of the mount for the Zalman a little bigger to fit over the existing back plate posts. The screws fit too! Took me 20 as I did not want to make the holes too big and took my time with that. Ran Heavyload program, check that out to really see how well your system cools, if you want. It took 10 minutes for it to hit 72, then when that happened, it dropped to 55 and hoovered between 55-58 with the odd 59. Let that go for another 5 minutes and then turned it off because it was working at keeping it there and I would have not seen any different. RPMs where at 2259 and the max is 2650 for this guy. Best 50$ I spent! No sense in posting a pic of the actual drilling aspect for the holes, but even if you go through the upper side by mistake, use a washer later :) Just do not go too wide!

    Image preview

    Your temps indeed look good, but what is the ambient temp?

    Nice you mentioned fan speeds, but this is also very important for the accuracy of the comparison/reviev, some people have 17C in their rooms, others even 25-28, so there is a pretty big difference.

    And Idk if it works for other users here, but I can't see some of the pics you upload, so maybe you'd like to consider making a new, separate post? If this cooler really fits PO3 case, and works so good while being such cheap compared to Noctua, I'm sure many users would be really interested.
  • CR_Apollo
    CR_Apollo Member Posts: 45 Troubleshooter
    edited January 2022
    messer89 said:
    CR_Apollo said:

    No worries, I posted it for others too. I got it installed without any extra work than making the bottom holes of the mount for the Zalman a little bigger to fit over the existing back plate posts. The screws fit too! Took me 20 as I did not want to make the holes too big and took my time with that. Ran Heavyload program, check that out to really see how well your system cools, if you want. It took 10 minutes for it to hit 72, then when that happened, it dropped to 55 and hoovered between 55-58 with the odd 59. Let that go for another 5 minutes and then turned it off because it was working at keeping it there and I would have not seen any different. RPMs where at 2259 and the max is 2650 for this guy. Best 50$ I spent! No sense in posting a pic of the actual drilling aspect for the holes, but even if you go through the upper side by mistake, use a washer later :) Just do not go too wide!

    Image preview

    Your temps indeed look good, but what is the ambient temp?

    Nice you mentioned fan speeds, but this is also very important for the accuracy of the comparison/reviev, some people have 17C in their rooms, others even 25-28, so there is a pretty big difference.

    And Idk if it works for other users here, but I can't see some of the pics you upload, so maybe you'd like to consider making a new, separate post? If this cooler really fits PO3 case, and works so good while being such cheap compared to Noctua, I'm sure many users would be really interested.

    Used in an room 10x10 that has the door closed and the heat does cause the room to heat up to around 28 degrees, if not more at times. Not much alters on the CPU temps from starting room temp 23 and when the room heats up. It does heat the room up like my PS4 does, though. And because how the fan is in embedded into the front of the heatsync, the air blowing out the side has helped drop the temp on my NVMe M.2 drive when under extreme load. Stays at 50 normally and rises to 57 max on extreme loading. I keep trying to post an image, but this site won't let me.

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