Is HDMI 2.1 port of new SFG14-72-53BP with this processor "TMDS" or "FRL" (8K60Hz compressed?

Alx24
Alx24 Member Posts: 20

Tinkerer

edited February 10 in Swift and Spin Series

Intel Core Ultra Meteor Lake Processor Specs:

"HDMI 2.1 (Up to 12 Gbps)
4K120
8K60Hz compressed,
5K120Hz compressed"

Is HDMI 2.1 port of new Acer Swift Go 14 (2024) with this processor "TMDS" or "FRL" (8K60Hz compressed) ?

[Edited the thread to add issue detail]

[Edited the thread to add model name to the title]

Best Answer

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,153 Trailblazer
    Answer ✓

    You can ignore all the rest. Acer is specific in their Service Guide:

    So, not HDMI 2.1 and no DP 1.4.

    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.

Answers

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,153 Trailblazer

    There have been a bunch of different Swift Go models. Your full model number is usually on the same sticker as your serial number, it should look something like SFG14-xxx-xxxx. We can try to look up specs once we know which you have.

    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Acer Swift Go 14 models:

    SFG14-72T-58SH
    SFG14-72T-71QF
    SFG14-72T-718K
    SFG14-72-72YK

    Intel® Core™ Ultra processor
    Intel® ARC Graphics

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    And there is new additional Acer Swift Go 14 model SFG14-72-53BP Intel® Core™ Ultra processor, Intel® ARC Graphics with unknown HDMI port capabilities for 8K.

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,153 Trailblazer

    It looks like the service guide for the SFG14-72 and SFG14-72T models haven't been released yet. I've asked for them and will report back when available.

    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Thank you for your quick response on Sunday. I'll wait, of course. I also realized that the "T" stands for IPS "Touchscreen". It is worth noting that Intel Mobile Processors with built-in non-variable graphics Ice Lake, Tiger Lake, Meteor Lake, which Acer Corp. very often and for a very long time supplemented with NVIDIA graphics chips, naturally, they were in the lead in DP 4K / DP 8K, USB-C, HDMI 4K / HDMI 8K, LS-Pcon compared to desktop processors, which are always easy to supplement with discrete video adapters in a computer. The difference in the cost of desktop processors from Intel Corp. with "F" and normal is minimal.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    It is clear that competitors have shortcomings in this area and similar questions arise when using the USB-C output of a laptop for 8K output, for example:

    https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/Core-ultra-8k-support/td-p/1567574

    "Core ultra 8k support"

    A feature of 8K in Meteor Lake is the use of DSC (Display Stream Compression), which display devices may not be compatible with.

    Usually the issue can be easily resolved with the help of information in the Hardware Compatibility List of products for monitors, TV and dongles.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Of course, there is no point in doubting the real 8K capability of Meteor Lake processors, since in addition to promises and specifications, there are corresponding real videos:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7U_OVv0un4

    "8K60 and Low-Power E-core Video Demos on Meteor Lake Laptop | Talking Tech | Intel Technology"

    This video shows the "MSI" model and it has:

    "MSI Prestige 16 AI Evo B1M"

    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-16-AI-Evo-B1MX
    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-16-AI-Evo-B1MX/Specification

    ...

    HDMI™ 2.1(8K@60Hz / 4K@120Hz)

    1x HDMI™ 2.1 (8K @ 60Hz / 4K @ 120Hz)

    ...

    "MSI Prestige 13 AI Evo A1M"

    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-13-AI-Evo-A1MX
    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-13-AI-Evo-A1MX/Specification

    ...

    1x HDMI™ 2.1 (8K @ 60Hz / 4K @ 120Hz)

    ...

    https://8kassociation.com/industry-info/8k-news/intel-meteor-lake-supports-8k60p-in-notebooks/

    "Intel Meteor Lake Supports 8K60P in Notebooks"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCqiGO5SMl4

    "Intel Meteor Lake Supports 8K60P in Notebooks"

    There is always an accumulation of real estate and durable goods such as 8K TV and Acer always adds something new, good and interesting to its products.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    The documentation available so far for the previous Acer Swift Go 14 contains a lot of important information on the topic of the question asked for very careful study.

    https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=638133408097480640&Step1=&Step2=&Step3=SFG14-71&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6

    © 2023. All Rights Reserved.
    Swift Go 14
    Covers: SFG14-71 / SFG14-71T / SFG14-42
    This revision: February 2023

    On Acer computers USB Type-C ports support up to USB4® (40 Gbps).
    Other USB devices with a USB Type-C connector are supported, but transfer
    speed may be reduced and certain functions will be disabled (such as
    Thunderbolt video support)

    Up to two 4K displays with can be connected to a single Thunderbolt 4
    port.
    If an adapter is used, DisplayPort or compatible devices, including
    HDMI, DVI or VGA, can be used.

    Thunderbolt 4 ports support transfer speeds up to 40 Gbps, and USB devices
    with a Type-C connector at lower speeds (typically up to 10 Gbps).
    Other USB or older Thunderbolt devices with a USB Type-C connector (or
    adapter) are supported, but transfer speeds may be reduced and certain
    functions may be disabled (such as Thunderbolt display support).

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,153 Trailblazer

    OK, I have access to the SG now. Here's what they say:

    It looks like you need DP 1.4 in order to support 8K.

    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    For the first time, 8K resolution appeared in Intel Core Mobile 11th Generation Tiger Lake processors, as well as USB-C and "HDMI2.1 Can be supported using LSPCON (DP1.4 to HDMI2.1 protocol converter".

    This concludes the discussion of graphics output via the USB-C port of Acer Swift Go with the appearance of comprehensive technical information from Acer and thanks for the official information provided.

    However, “SG” also contains very useful information that is completely absent from the “User Manual” about the capabilities of the HDMI port of the Acer Swift Go (2024) laptop, despite the fact that the “HDMI” sticker is now placed on every laptop. This is my last question currently.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    A little additional information, no questions asked.

  • KJN9000000
    KJN9000000 Member Posts: 394 Skilled Fixer

    Here you go This should Answer your Question completely https://a.co/d/92eypYZ

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,153 Trailblazer

    The specs on the HDMI port and on the USB-C port are different. That may be the confusion here…

    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.
  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Thanks billsey, KJN9000000.

    A little additional information, no questions asked.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Laptops are replacing desktops with their monitors and therefore laptops are increasingly connected to existing TVs and not to monitors.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Acer Support currently has a "User Manual" for these Acer Swift Go models

    SFG16-71
    SFG14-73
    SFG14-72T
    SFG14-72
    SFG14-42
    SFG14-71T
    SFG14-71
    SFG14-41

    including new SFG14-72, SFG14-72T ( Intel Meteor Lake / Core Ultra, Intel Arc Graphics )

    https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=638386651075134114&Step1=&Step2=&Step3=SFG14-72&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6

    Swift Go 14
    Covers: SFG14-72 / SFG14-72T
    This revision: October 2023

    In chapter "THUNDERBOLT 4 PORT" is

    ...

    Displays
    Up to two 4K displays with can be connected to a single Thunderbolt 4 port. If an adapter is used, DisplayPort or compatible devices, including HDMI, DVI or VGA, can be used.
    Note
    Thunderbolt 4 ports support transfer speeds up to 40 Gbps, and USB devices with a Type-C connector at

    lower speeds (typically up to 10 Gbps). Other USB or older Thunderbolt devices with a USB Type-C

    connector (or adapter) are supported, but transfer speeds may be reduced and certain functions may be disabled (such as Thunderbolt display support)

    ...

    In the document

    https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/D2T1-4%20-%20VESA%20DP%20Alt%20Mode%20over%20USB%20Type-C.pdf

    "VESA – DisplayPort Alternate Mode on USB-C"

    ...

    DisplayPort 1.4a

    No Compression

    4 Lanes, max link rate - 5K (5120x2800)@60fps 24bpp

    2 Lanes, max link rate - 4K (3840x2160)@60fps 24bpp

    With Compression (DSC)

    4 Lanes, max link rate - 8K (7680x4320)@60fps 30bpp

    2 Lanes, max link rate - 5K (5120x2800)@60fps 24bpp

    2 Lane configuration is common for USB-C DP Alt Mode

    ...

    Intel Meteor Lake / Core Ultra, Intel Arc Graphics DP with compression specifications:

    "DisplayPort Maximum Resolution

    Standard

    U/H Processor Line

    8K60Hz compressed, 5K120Hz compressed"

    continued …

    Incomplete use of 40 Gbps is also found in Microsoft Corp.'s own adapters.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/troubleshoot-connecting-surface-to-an-external-display-bc8f5121-a4cb-cf0b-5770-2df7a66a3b28

    "Troubleshoot connecting Surface to an external display"

    and even in the most difficult

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/d/surface-thunderbolt-4-dock/8x7cgh1n2tb2?activetab=pivot:techspecstab

    "Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock"

    ...

    Elevate your workspace with Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock, delivering ultra-high speed data transfer. Eight versatile connections power your webcam, phone and other accessories while connecting up to two 4K monitors.

    ...

    USB4/Thunderbolt 4 high-speed ports
    Maximise performance by plugging in the USB4/Thunderbolt 4 cable to power your device, connect up to two 4K monitors at 60Hz, and transfer data and files at up to 40Gbps—four times faster than USB 3.

    ...

    USB-C connection supports one 4k external display at up to 60 Hz (when supported by device and display)

    ...

    If you look at information about competing laptops with a processor Intel Meteor Lake / Core Ultra, Intel Arc Graphics

    MSI Prestige 16 AI Evo B1M - (Intel® Core™ Ultra processors)
    MSI Prestige 14 AI Evo C1M - (Intel® Core™ Ultra processors)
    MSI Prestige 13 AI Evo A1M - (Intel® Core™ Ultra processors)

    then in the documentation for them

    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-16-AI-Evo-B1MX/support?sub_product=Prestige-16-AI-Evo-B1MG#manual

    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-14-AI-Evo-C1MX/support#manual

    https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-13-AI-Evo-A1MX/support?sub_product=Prestige-13-AI-Evo-A1MG#manual

    is indicated as standard

    "Thunderbolt 4, optionally supports USB4, PCIe, HDMI, DisplayPort
    connection; 8K display monitor output; up to 40Gbps transfer rate."

    ...

    "Thunderbolt 4 2 x USB4 (USB-C)

    8K display monitor output"

    ...

    8K is possible using full bandwidth as

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F17ZHJY?pd_rd_i=B07F17ZHJY&pf_rd_p=781503ef-fc4a-4a05-82e1-c6ce0583b45e&pf_rd_r=WTVNH03J1VDNWA9K6J5Z&pd_rd_wg=t6AqM&pd_rd_w=6lMBZ&pd_rd_r=464f5903-5d57-4b5b-b9b8-43e5925b0682

    "Cable Matters 32.4Gbps USB C to DisplayPort 1.4 Adapter, 8K@60hz, 4K@144hz and HDR Support -Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 Compatible with Oculus Rift S, iPhone 15 Pro, MacBook Pro, XPS, Surface"

    High resolution Apple display over 5K

    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    "Pro Display XDR"

    ...

    "One Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) port, three USB-C ports"

    "Resolution: 6016 by 3384 pixels"

    ...

    Can be connected to Apple iPad Air 6 with M1 chip

    https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/

    ...

    Display Support

    Supports one external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz

    ...

    For the first time, 8K resolution appeared in Intel Core Mobile 11th Generation Tiger Lake processors, as well as USB-C and "HDMI2.1 Can be supported using LSPCON (DP1.4 to HDMI2.1 protocol converter".

    This concludes the discussion of graphics output via the USB-C port of Acer Swift Go with the appearance of comprehensive technical information from Acer and thanks for the official information provided.

    However, “SG” also contains very useful information that is completely absent from the “User Manual” about the capabilities of the HDMI port of the Acer Swift Go (2024) laptop, despite the fact that the “HDMI” sticker is now placed on every laptop. This is my last question currently.

  • Alx24
    Alx24 Member Posts: 20

    Tinkerer

    Thanks billsey, KJN9000000.

    With all the huge worldwide modern complete confusion of HDMI 2.1, which now completely includes all HDMI 2.0, in the end it is very difficult to get a definite and positive result. Thanks to additional compression DSC (Display Stream Compression), all interface problems, even in the distant future of higher resolutions and frequencies, are very easily solved, but the definition is not reduced.


    In the TV area there are very specific HD, Ultra HD, Ultra HD 8K. The EDID of a monitor or TV provides accurate information about them in full for Plug & Play for these devices.Precise information about video outputs circulates within the operating system, which defines and provides the user with a list of acceptable video modes.

    There is not a very significant number of 8K moniters, e.g. the new "57" Odyssey Neo G9 Dual 4K UHD Quantum Mini-LED 240Hz 1ms(GtG) HDR 1000 Curved Gaming Monitor" with HDMI and DP inputs, but the vast majority of 8K display devices are TVs with HDMI 2.1 inputs. Acer has a significant number of gaming desktops and laptops with NVIDIA RTX 40. Acer Swift Go use their own processor graphics.

    So this

    Core Ultra 5 135H, Core Ultra 7 165H, Core Ultra 9 185H (Intel Arc graphics)

    Core Ultra 5 135U, Core Ultra 7 165U (Intel Graphics)

    For all of them it is indicated

    Graphics Output DP2.1 UHBR20, HDMI2.1

    ...

    Max Resolution (HDMI) 4096 x 2304 @ 60Hz (HDMI 2.1 TMDS)

    7680 x 4320 @ 60Hz (HDMI2.1 FRL)

    Max Resolution (DP) 7680 x 4320 @ 60Hz

    For HDMI2.1, there are two options listed here: “4096 x 2304 @ 60Hz (HDMI 2.1 TMDS)” and “7680 x 4320 @ 60Hz (HDMI2.1 FRL)”.

    Maximum laptop resolutions depend on its configuration and, as Acer said, are contained in its "SG" document. It is worth considering that additional characteristics complicate testing and increase cost. Operating the video output more intensively increases power consumption.

  • billsey
    billsey ACE Posts: 31,153 Trailblazer
    Answer ✓

    You can ignore all the rest. Acer is specific in their Service Guide:

    So, not HDMI 2.1 and no DP 1.4.

    Click on "Like" if you find my answer useful or click on "Yes" if it answers your question.