Troubleshooting freeze-ups on Acer Veriton X4610G How can I pinpoint the random freezes?

The Problem

My Acer Veriton X4610G freezes up suddenly and unexpectedly from time to time. I'm running integrated graphics (HD2000) on the Intel Core i5-2320 CPU. Sometimes I see a flash of distortion in the bottom of the screen (like when you put a VHS tape on pause) for a brief moment. Then the computer is completely frozen-up. The information on the screen is still visible. The mouse nor keyboard respond (not even the cap-locks light can be activated). The only thing I can do, is press the power button for a long while to abruptly power off the system

My hypothesis / expectation is some kind of hardware failure

A. Maybe the power supply is deteriorating?
B. Maybe the on-board Intel graphics HD 2000 is failing?
C. Maybe the motherboard is failing?
D. Maybe RAM is failing?
E. Corrupted Windows

What I managed to investigate and exclude

The random freeze-ups also happen when running Linux. So that makes corrupted driver issues under Windows less likely. This excludes expectation E.

When I inspect the system logs with Windows 10's Reliability Monitor, then I see no consistent pattern. Log entries I can see fall in the categories:

Shut down unexpectedly
Windows Stopped working - exception code 0xc0000374: indicates a heap corruption
The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck - The bugcheck was: 0x0000003b: corrupted RAM can give rise to blue screen 0x0000003b stop errors

I did rigorous memory testing with Passmark MemTest86. The memory tests which took over 4 hours turned out well. No problems were found. This excludes expectation D.

Sometimes I get a blue screen (BSOD). I did get one Windows system dump from those and saved it.

I wanted and started monitoring and logging temperatures and voltages with SpeedFan (a freely available tool). But it only shows temperatures. I can't get it to monitor voltages. In the BIOS voltages are displayed. The temperatures look fine there, but I can't get real-time measurements on voltages in SpeedFan. Only the Temp 2 sensor (Chip: IT8728F, ISA bus address $A30) shows 50 C, which is the higerst value of all sensors and doesn't alarm me.

What I'd like to do next and need advise on:

Voltage monitoring

I'd like to add real-time voltage monitoring and logging in order to spot weird voltages. Who knows how to do that on the X4610G? (or enable SpeedFan Voltage monitoring for the X4610G).

Furthermore I'd like to analyze the Windows dump file. How can I do that best? and will that be helpful?

Any advise on how to trouble shoot and pinpoint this problem is appreciated, especially the on-board Intel graphics HD 2000 (B) and the motherboard (C).

How can I pinpoint the cause of these random freezes?

[Edited the thread to add model name to the title and issue detail]

Accepted answers

All comments

Larryodie

I would eliminate all USB devices, If possible pull the keyboard and mouse also go to task manager and disable any start-up APPS.

I'm not really sure if any unwanted virus scans are included in LINUS ?

Also watch your task manager performance for overload.

I think that it is a software or background program that is causing the freeze not the hardware (if you fans are OK and you're monitoring the temperature.

Larryodie

Also most Bios under the advance tab, have volt and temperature readings but not when running.

I had an app installed that monitored the volt and temperatures but I have done a clean install . I'll do some research or GOOGLE.

Here is my Bios Advance Tab

20211022_124557.jpg

Larryodie

Here is a screenshot of the UNKNWN APP that runs real time,.

20211021_231128.jpg

Larryodie

After much research. SPECCY is the app that I used. It shows real time volts and temperatures

Marty11

@Larryodie Thank you very much for your posts and effort.

I'll try uncoupling as many USB devices as possible, but mouse and keyboard are essential. The only one I could decouple is the HP LaserJet printer.

I investigated SPECCY, but it seems that it can't do automatic logging. Unfortunately I can not predict when the system will freeze, so without automatic logging of voltages I will always miss to capture voltages at (or right before) freeze moment.

The PC is not under heavy load when freezing and temperatures remain nice and low.

Thanks for your effort.

Larryodie

Look for varying power supply voltages (unsteady) as that is what bad capacitors do.

I would be concerned more about an unwanted program being run than hardware. Monitor your task manager for spyware.

Run Malewarebytes and do a full scan with MS Virus Security

Also clean the unit and REGISTRY (block deleting cookies) with CCleaner.

Your task managers will show in progress programs and disable all of the start-up programs will probably fix as I'll bet that you have unwanted malware loaded and not a hardware problem.

Unless you're using the computer, you can unplug the keyboard and mouse,

Also how long does it take to freeze ?

Marty11

@Larryodie

I intend to try SPECCY as soon as I get the time and will lookout for voltage fluctuations.

Because identical freeze-ups also occur when I've booted Linux, I am sure that it is not a Windows malware / virus issue, except when it has infected UEFI/BIOS, Intel Management Extensions or the Printer Firmware. I don't have any indication of that yet. Nonetheless I have run a deep boot-up scan, without any findings.

I had flicked on the BIOS non writable jumper to prevent unwanted BIOS changes. I have de-activated Intel ME as far as possible and don't use the onboard Intel network interface (that can be accessed autonomously by Intel ME). I had a printer firmware lock configuration in place, but that was in an unlocked state... I can't remember if I did that myself?

Freeze-ups occur totally at random. I can't predict them. I've got a hunch that they occur more often after a fresh start on a cold machine. I've seen them occur when browsing (Firefox) and scrolling down. I've seen them when Idle. I've also seen them after long running unattended tasks. I did manage a long run in Windows recovery mode, with a lower resolution and most drivers unloaded.

My hunch is that it could be graphics related? As onboard graphics shares/takes memory with/from main memory, would Passmark MemTest86 also have tested that memory or would it have skipped it?Does graphics always claim the same physical pysical memory?, then there could still be untested DIMM memory. I've never blown out a CPU yet, how likely would it be that the CPU/On board graphics would be failing? Otherwise components on the motherboard could be at fault. How could one test for that?

What could cause memory corruption, that is not detected by Passmark MemTest86 (that runs in a very simple low res DOS like environment)?

Thanks again for your reply.

leonaip

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/678161/troubleshooting-freeze-ups-on-veriton-x4610g

sometimes that is a sign that the mobo (motherboard) is failing or has problems.

maybe the cause of the problem is the static electricity from our body if we don't follow the safety protocols on handling the sensitive components of the computer.

we should always use anti-static wrist strap before handling and touching computer's sensitive components to prevent our static electricity going directly to it and we should always use anti-static mat that we put the disassembled components on without worries of static electricity.

leonaip

My hypothesis / expectation is some kind of hardware failure

A. Maybe the power supply is deteriorating?
= try installing a new power supply that is compatible to the mobo and has good wattage
B. Maybe the on-board Intel graphics HD 2000 is failing?
= maybe that is the cause
= try installing a compatible video card
C. Maybe the motherboard is failing?
= sometimes the ultimate cause
D. Maybe RAM is failing?
= needs cleaning (rub the contact points using thumb size pencil eraser or a fine steel sandpaper until it is clean and the discoloration disappears) else replace it with a new one
E. Corrupted Windows
= another possible cause
= use original Windows ISO from Microsoft, do not use the modded ones as it will mess up after Windows update

What I managed to investigate and exclude

The random freeze-ups also happen when running Linux. So that makes corrupted driver issues under Windows less likely. This excludes expectation E.

= more of a hardware issue

When I inspect the system logs with Windows 10's Reliability Monitor, then I see no consistent pattern. Log entries I can see fall in the categories:

Shut down unexpectedly

= faulty RAM or hard disk or virus infection

Windows Stopped working - exception code 0xc0000374: indicates a heap corruption

= software/hardware issue or malware attack

The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck - The bugcheck was: 0x0000003b: corrupted RAM can give rise to blue screen 0x0000003b stop errors

= RAM needs cleaning or replacement

I wanted and started monitoring and logging temperatures and voltages with SpeedFan (a freely available tool). But it only shows temperatures. I can't get it to monitor voltages. In the BIOS voltages are displayed. The temperatures look fine there, but I can't get real-time measurements on voltages in SpeedFan. Only the Temp 2 sensor (Chip: IT8728F, ISA bus address $A30) shows 50 C, which is the higerst value of all sensors and doesn't alarm me.

= power supply unit problem

= do a hard reset by dismantling all the attached components of the motherboard including the processor and jumpers. wait for 15 minutes before installing all the components. always wear your anti-static wrist strap and use anti-static mat.

What I'd like to do next and need advise on:

Voltage monitoring

= use HWiNFO or AIDA64

= you can also monitor in the BIOS

leonaip

wipe clean the old thermal paste in the head processor and the heatsink then put new thermal paste.

inspect the CPU fan if it spins fast, otherwise, replace it with a new one.

Larryodie

I'm curious as to how clean is the unit ?

Are the vents dirty and/or the insides dirty?

Is anything blocking the vents ?

Do you leave it on 24 hours are do you have it set to go into sleep ?

Ventilation is very important . Check your Power Supply fan. I use a Klennex tissue or a dollar bill to check the flow outward.

Marty11

@Larryodie

Ducts and vents are nice and clean. I give the internals a yearly dusting inside (always grounded when working inside the casing). The PSU is kind of a problem, because it can't be dismantled. I don't think it has its own fan. The casing is 1/2 U.

The whole system runs nice and cool. Even under load.

I can hear and see the fan revving up under load.

The PC automatically goes to sleep after 30 minutes of idle time. It is rarely on for prolonged times.

@leonaip Thanks for your elaborate reply.

I'd rather first pinpoint the problem before ripping the whole system apart and rebuilding it. Everything is snugly assembled in the small 1/2 U casing.

Finding a new powersupply will be a challenge. It looks like it's especially designed for the system. Unless I'm sure it is failing I won't invest in a new one for test purposes only.

I don't have a PCIe slot free to install a discrete video card neither do I have one laying around.

RAM has been rigorously stress tested and shown no faults.

In BIOS the voltages look okay. I'll look into HWiNFO or AIDA64. Do you know if either can do automatic logging?

Can motherboard failure be detected in any way (beeps or so)?

Thanks again.

billsey

Typically the freezing type issues are caused either by a rouge driver latching the bus and not releasing or a hardware issue. Since it happens both in Windows and Linux the issue is unlikely to be a driver. That leaves hardware. Two things jump out at me as possibilities, the first is the GPU since you are seeing display artifacts when frozen. You could just pull the GPU out and use the onboard video for a week or two to see if that fixes it. The other option is a weak or failing power supply. Replacing it with one out of another system, then running for a week or two should pin that down as well. Don't try to do both at once so you can actually pin it to one or the other. Yours uses one of the small flex supplies, not a full ATX, but the connectors are the same, so you can likely run it with the spare PSU sitting outside the box. Just jumper between the case of the supply to the case of the computer so references grounds are identical.

Larryodie

The power supply fan next to your cord (picture 2) should run all the time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/164786167791

Larryodie

A few PS are listed. This one is new.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324177081839?hash=item4b7a75b5ef:g:4MQAAOSwpCVjQUBX&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4JdfukZLdj2tm0eql61Sav7bkn8ExEK7yB70NVt4VHukTL9V%2F8d3fLfzjG4tzQTsmNxaoVOTA8sixmCgdFwX3CEVA79ib8kLm9OzK%2BLTht6PQH8%2B73pLMyH6kH%2FgXMBCvdzSTygb3QhWxMimVwSsNIRto6EuAgDoGYbhvKfk9dFd9TTqkgu3TP58V8hZ46JJ8NE%2Fa0RPU3HB2K0UnCvvUmFqiHKEBDXaF9ygrc8Xiu61Iz%2FEIfpyjqGaB1C5Rlv3cfgEDohIg9MGO2xRvdKLGBWpOO3szjEXjY%2F%2BtANL%2FdQe%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR47m6uO6YQ

Marty11

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/comment/1175415#Comment_1175415

@billsey Thanks for chipping in with troubleshooting. Good to see you.

I can't pull the GPU because I'm running on the onboard video of the integrated graphics (HD2000) on the Intel Core i5-2320 CPU. I can't install a discrete video card, because I have no free PCIe slot. The one slot is populated by my sytem drive (NVMe).

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/comment/1175427#Comment_1175427

@Larryodie Great find.! I checked the PSU vent immediately. I can feel air being blown out of the computer (and doesn't suck it in) at the PSU air duct. It runt very silently because I never noticed it. I can't open it up, but I'll put the vacuum cleaner on the duct to suck out any loose dust. BTW in standby the PSU fan doesn't blow, but the mother board is powered.

billsey

OK, I assumed you still had the stock GPU in since it was a G model... I'd kind of hate to spend the money on a new PSU without knowing ahead of time that it was the solution, rather than only the most likely solution...

Larryodie

I'm not positive that there is a fan in the PSU as I can't see one with a flashlight

The flow could be from the GPU fan ?

Have you said as to how often does it shutdown ?

2, 5 ,10 30, an hour or sometimes never ?

I know my TC-895-UA92 went blue screen and also died in stand-by (light quit blinking ) for a week or so when I 1st got it.

I left it on for a few days with no sleep and the problem disappeared ?

Marty11

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/comment/1175747#Comment_1175747

I like your thinking. I'd also want to be sure before buying a new one.

I tried running HWiNFO. Unluckily the voltage sensor readings from the IT8728F chip appear to be largely messed up. Only the CMOS batt voltage shows correctly and I can see a +3.3 volt measure under the wrong label furthermore all other readings make no sense and can't be correlated with the BIOS measures. Only the processor voltage is correct. HWiNFO claims to be the only tool that reads this values, but needs additional information from Acer in order to make sense of the data. HWiNFO can do logging as well. What voltage measures are the best indicator for PSU problems?

https://community.acer.com/en/discussion/comment/1175752#Comment_1175752

Thanks for your reply. I can see a fan and it is blowing when on.

I shut it down multiple times a week, but sometimes it can be asleep for a day.

It has been on for a lot of hours when memory testing without freezing.

Strangely I has run without freezing for a few days now. The weather here has changed from below 0 C to above. Although in the house its always above 16 C.

I had similar problems for a while in august to. But last week it kept freezing up.

(I unplugged it from the wall socket also BTW.)

Mem testing ran in low res BTW. I'm not sure if it tested the memory that is in use by the onboard GPU?

Larryodie

I would take the cover off and lightly tap on around on the mother board and PSU with a screw driver handle with no programs in-progress. Lightly tap as I say (but carefully on the mechanical hard drive.

Another trick is trick is to use a hair blower.

If you don't feel comfortable doing either then DON"T. I owned a TV shop and repaired electronics daily for 45 years and before that I fixed fighter jets comm-nav while in service so I have 64 years of "tapping" experience.

If it is working then don't mess with it.

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