RAM MEMORY SPEED UPGRADE Predator Helios 500 PH517-61

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  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
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    xapim said:
    deksman2 i completely understand your fear but its funny all my old aspires 5740G and 7745G i would always had either a missing screw of spare after disassembling and assembling and when u forget to connect the fan power cable after repasting it and having everything assembled lol good old times (repasted my 7745G i7 940qm 2nd gen just a few months ago with kryonaut) in the end its your choice to do it or not but i can tell you disassembling any predator/nitro/triton even with inverted mobos its way easier and faster than any of my old aspires for sure easiest laptops i have ever disassembled  :) 
    Technically, this one doesn't necessarily classify as an inverted mobo seeing how 99% of the hw is on the easily accessible side (so its fairly easy to clean/maintain and also upgrade the CPU if I wanted to - the chassis can easily handle Ryzen 2700x).

    Its just that for some (inexplicable) reason, Acer decided to put 2 DIMM's onto the backside of the motherboard (despite the mobo being literally HUGE and Acer having enough space to cram the 2 extra DIMM's onto the easily accessible side - or just stick with 2 DIMM's total on easily accessible side, not 4 by having 2 on one side and 2 on the other - and then they go about to make things IMPOSSIBLE for most people who actually want to upgrade RAM at some point by putting the factory installed RAM where it can't be reached without full disassembly, AND of course, limiting the speed to 2400MhZ if all 4 DIMM's are populated).

    Aside from the RAM execution, the machine is really well executed and the quietest/coolest on the market (even today).




  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited June 2020
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    deksman2 yup they tend to do that when theres a board with 4 slots so the customer cant reach the other 2 easily :p luckily my 7745G has the 4 slots overlapping 2x2 easy ram upgrade :) and youre completely right the H500 its still the best cooling system that any manufacturer made for a gaming laptop not saying that the H700 wouldnt have a bit better now but the downside its really noisy the 2400mhz limits its because if the ryzen mobile cpus and intel 7th gen under they dont support more so the mobos were designed to support 2400 only even the new ryzen models are the same (i have the same issue with my G3-572 ended up by selling my 32gb hyperx to a nitro 5 8th gen and got 32gb vengeance 2400 instead which perform the same as hyperx even with higher CL) only the new 4000h series will be supporting 2666 i think


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
    edited June 2020
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    P.S. On my previous PH517-61, I remember I installed a single 16GB stick from Crucial at 2400MhZ and poor timings... but it worked fine with the stock pre-installed RAM (2x8GB 2400MhZ CL17), and it still  operated at 2400MhZ according to Windows (only the Cas Latencies were higher).

    So, that configuration worked... and it was still pushing dual-channel according to the system and ram speed was unaffected.
    Which begs the question, is the HyperX properly compatible with this laptop? In the sense that if the BIOS cannot properly read it, then it wouldn't matter even if I tried replacing the pre-installed RAM with these sticks, as there is no guarantee it would work.

    I tried installing a single Hyper X stick instead into the unit. Same result (RAM speed dropped down to 1866MhZ).
    So, why is it that the HyperX 16GB sticks cannot clock to 2400 MhZ (same as factory installed RAM) but Crucial 16GB sticks can?

    Is it the RAM frequencies themselves throwing the system out of whack, or is it possible that this mobo (at least with existing BIOS) simply cannot read HyperX RAM properly?

  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited June 2020
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    deksman2 hyperx has xmp jedec usually it will auto boost to 2666 if the board would allow it that why its better paired with the exact same ram doesnt work properly if mixed due to the xmp but its the best ram u can get many upgraded with hyperx there were some enthusiasts here that even managed to mod the bios (not advisable risky neither allowed to be discussed here in the community) and got it to clock to 3200mhz was with a samsung 32gb 3200 single sodimm if i remember


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
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    xapim said:
    deksman2 hyperx has xmp jedec usually it will auto boost to 2666 if the board would allow it that why its better paired with the exact same ram doesnt work properly if mixed due to the xmp but its the best ram u can get many upgraded with hyperx there were some enthusiasts here that even managed to mod the bios (not advisable risky neither allowed to be discussed here in the community) and got it to clock to 3200mhz was with a samsung 32gb 3200 single sodimm if i remember
    I gave a ring to the local repair shop asking them if they could replace the stock RAM with HyperX. They said the technician needs to do some research first on the complexity of the machine.

    I'd probably feel easier if someone who has more experience to do this... but, this isn't an Intel/NV configuration, its AMD (I made that much very clear and hence why they need to do the research).

    But, if the HyperX is downclocking the whole RAM speeds down to 1866MhZ right now even with 1 stick installed (with stock RAM in the play), what are the chances the HyperX RAM will in fact work at 2666MhZ with stock RAM completely removed?

    Ideally I'd LOVE to upgrade this thing to 64GB... but as I said, if the RAM frequencies operate at 1866MhZ as a result (and I know this machine can do 2400MhZ with 64GB using different RAM, there would not be much point as the performance of Infinity Fabric would reduce performance of Ryzen 2700 as a whole (and games and productivity software would suffer as a result).

  • Commodore_1995#
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    I think this video and some pictures can help you:
    Oi! Eu não sou sou a cortana! Mas estou aqui para ajudar! Hi! I'm not the cortana! But I'm here to help!
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  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
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    I think this video and some pictures can help you:
    Already saw that video.
    Its pretty basic and doesn't go into full tear-down (which is needed to reach the RAM slots on the other side of the motherboard).
    Gah... WHY did Acer make things so unnecessarily COMPLICATED?
  • Commodore_1995#
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    Did you download the file I sent?
    Oi! Eu não sou sou a cortana! Mas estou aqui para ajudar! Hi! I'm not the cortana! But I'm here to help!
    Se você gostou da minha resposta, marque como solução clicando em sim! If you liked my answer, mark it as a solution by clicking on yes!
    Aceite somente a resposta que ajudou a solucionar o seu problema! Please accept only the response that helped to solve your problem!
    Detection tool click here to find the serial number or partnumber of your model!                                                          

               
      egydiocoelho Trailblazer
     
    ProductKey clique aqui para descobrir o serial do windows! click here to discover the windows serial!
    Para usuários da comunidade inglesa, espanhola, francesa e alemã, usarei o google tradutor! :)
    For users of the English, Spanish, French and German community, I will be using google translator! :) 
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited June 2020
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    deksman2 seems to me the local repair shop technician its not a technician at all :P i can disassemble any laptop/desktop no matter what brand to clean/repair/upgrade and assemble everything back without any issues (been doing it for years for friends etc...) and i don t have any degree/course for it i consider myself a IT professional with the know how but without a stamped paper to state it sometimes i think were about some called technicians took their courses lol probably on a package of crisps :p 

    Anyway its just an observation and i would start by looking for a real technician if you dont feel comfortable doing it :)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • Commodore_1995#
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    I compiled some photos about the disassembly of the ph517-61: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029997/uploads/editor/e4/c0miuckpwx5q.rar
    It will definitely help you.
    Oi! Eu não sou sou a cortana! Mas estou aqui para ajudar! Hi! I'm not the cortana! But I'm here to help!
    Se você gostou da minha resposta, marque como solução clicando em sim! If you liked my answer, mark it as a solution by clicking on yes!
    Aceite somente a resposta que ajudou a solucionar o seu problema! Please accept only the response that helped to solve your problem!
    Detection tool click here to find the serial number or partnumber of your model!                                                          

               
      egydiocoelho Trailblazer
     
    ProductKey clique aqui para descobrir o serial do windows! click here to discover the windows serial!
    Para usuários da comunidade inglesa, espanhola, francesa e alemã, usarei o google tradutor! :)
    For users of the English, Spanish, French and German community, I will be using google translator! :) 
  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
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    I found a REDDIT post regarding the disassembly (and accessing the extra memory modules) : 
    Repasting the CPU / GPU was surprisingly easy but wasn't worth it.

    I gained 5 degrees C under load on the CPU at best. No real change on the GPU from what I can tell but it ran cool anyway. Used Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.

    It's a lot of screws but they're all the same length. Procedure is:

    1. Remove 2 screws holding the access panel

    2. Remove the access panel

    3. Remove ALL the black screws on the underside of the machine

    4. Remove 2.5" SATA cage

    5. Remove SSD shield / all SSDs and Battery

    6. Remove SATA cable from motherboard if attached (gently pull up on the little handle on the connector)

    7. Remove 2 small 3 pin connectors that connect the bottom case to the motherboard (subwoofer / speaker connectors)

    8. Carefully remove the bottom cover of the laptop. No clips, so just go slow and be gentle.

    9. Loosen the screws holding the CPU / GPU cooler in reverse order (they are numbered, start with the highest number)

    10. Remove fan cables and pull the cooler gently up. Careful of the thermal pads!

    Again, not really worth it, but nice to know it's easy for when the paste dries out.

    Accessing the RAM under the motherboard was not hard either

    Follow the above procedure and disconnect all the ribbon cables from the motherboard. They're all flip-up ribbon cable clamps and are extremely easy. Motherboard is only held on by 2 screws once you have the CPU / GPU cooler off. Just make sure you plug everything back in!


    I could consider doing this myself as it forgoes complete teardown which shouldn't be necessary to reach the RAM slots).



  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
    Options
    I compiled some photos about the disassembly of the ph517-61: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029997/uploads/editor/e4/c0miuckpwx5q.rar
    It will definitely help you.
    Thank you.
    This is definitely helpful.
  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
    edited June 2020
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    xapim said:
    deksman2 seems to me the local repair shop technician its not a technician at all :P i can disassemble any laptop/desktop no matter what brand to clean/repair/upgrade and assemble everything back without any issues (been doing it for years for friends etc...) and i don t have any degree/course for it i consider myself a IT professional with the know how but without a stamped paper to state it sometimes i think were about some called technicians took their courses lol probably on a package of crisps :p 

    Anyway its just an observation and i would start by looking for a real technician if you dont feel comfortable doing it :)
    Its not like I hadn't done it myself, but I already lost one PH517-61 to a faulty BIOS flash (which I was told almost 'never' happens), and 'unexpected' things seem to happen to me on a regular basis (that other people cannot predict). I can predict them as a possibility, and in the end, some actually end up happening. That's my problem with doing this myself (that one 'very unlikely thing' tends to actually HAPPEN to me).

    The technician needs to familiarize himself with the complexity of the unit because I'd say that's standard procedure (especially because this is NOT an Intel/NV machine and its a rare occurrence in the laptop world with a different setup).

    I personally had broken hinges from ribbon cables in some other laptops when I had to do full teardowns because the stupid hinges don't want to budge 'gently' (and too much force ends up destroying them) ... not a pretty thing... and this laptop has TONS of them to look at.
    I hate that this unit is susceptible to so many vulnerabilities if you need to disassemble it to gain access to RAM.

    I can easily remove the heatsink, clean it (along with the exhaust vents) and repaste it myself... that's not an issue, I HATE FULL teardowns though because half-way through I already start forgetting which things go where (screws are biggest problem, as are ribbon cables - I have trouble re-assembling the thing properly).

    People ALWAYS say: 'its gonna be fine, just do it'. But they ignore a million things that can go wrong (things I usually think about) and I'm usually the 'fortunate recipient' of that 1 thing that goes wrong.
    And then I find myself without a laptop (again) and no money to replace it.

    Also, unfortunately, I don't have any friends who are experienced with laptop teardowns. Where I live, I seem to be surrounded by people who are almost completely ignorant of technology and basic engineering.

  • Commodore_1995#
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    I understand your fear of opening this notebook. That's why I compiled those photos, so you know what to do.
    Oi! Eu não sou sou a cortana! Mas estou aqui para ajudar! Hi! I'm not the cortana! But I'm here to help!
    Se você gostou da minha resposta, marque como solução clicando em sim! If you liked my answer, mark it as a solution by clicking on yes!
    Aceite somente a resposta que ajudou a solucionar o seu problema! Please accept only the response that helped to solve your problem!
    Detection tool click here to find the serial number or partnumber of your model!                                                          

               
      egydiocoelho Trailblazer
     
    ProductKey clique aqui para descobrir o serial do windows! click here to discover the windows serial!
    Para usuários da comunidade inglesa, espanhola, francesa e alemã, usarei o google tradutor! :)
    For users of the English, Spanish, French and German community, I will be using google translator! :) 
  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
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    I understand your fear of opening this notebook. That's why I compiled those photos, so you know what to do.
    I've already opened it on several occasions... its the prospect of tearing it down entirely to reach the RAM sticks on the other side of the motherboard is what concerns me what with all the large amount of screws and ribbon cables you need to keep track and be VERY careful of.

    Whenever I'm 'gentle' with ribbon cables, its never enough to remove them like that because they require more force to open the hinges (which can easily be broken - and I had this happen to me already on other laptops - no matter how gentle or cautious I was, the hinges never budged as they should have - and also, re-assembling everything is a NIGHTMARE. I can barely keep track of everything half-way through, never mind reassembling it - that's why I'd prefer someone who is more experienced with full teardowns to at least assist me).

  • deksman2
    deksman2 Member Posts: 47 Devotee WiFi Icon
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    Ok... I decided to return the Hyper X (and get a refund) and just get myself a Corsair RAM (2x16GB) 2400MhZ with CL17 (same as my stock RAM).
    I actually found out what my stock RAM is and I can find it online, but from previous experience I know that Cosair RAM should work just fine and operate at 2400MhZ with stock RAM easily because the corsair RAM has identical timings.

    The reason for this is simple: I'd lose my warranty if I tried to disassemble the unit to reach the aft RAM, so I decided to just go with the path of less resistance for the moment.

    If I find that 48GB is not enough, then I'll eventually upgrade to 64GB.

    I'm also organizing a bit of a movement with other PH517-61 owners to prompt Acer in releasing Zen 2/Zen 3 support along with integration for high RAM frequencies support (or at least XMP profiles).

  • GlitchedAtBirth
    GlitchedAtBirth Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
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    deksman2 said:
    xapim said:
    eksman2 personally i would use hyperx or vengeance only and i would disassemble it to get it properly upgraded  if you can without voiding your warranty (i know its a pain but ask anyone else here who upgraded it properly even up to 64gb well worth it) i wouldnt trust crucial they just want to sell and they always say they guarantee compatibility but i have seen many issues with their statements but its your choice u have the best ram u can get for a laptop even not clocking at 2666 u already spent the money on it i would keep it and would remove the stock as i already stated anyway good luck  on whatever option u follow but you will never be able to match exactly the stock ram as i already said its proprietary 
    I'm not a stranger to disassembly... however, this is a brand new beast which has (literally) ridiculous amount of connections to keep track of, and I am usually struggling keeping track of them all in a simpler laptop, nevermind something like this.
    Yes, all of the units I re-assembled before worked, but I DID end up missing a screw or two... and on an occasion or two, I completely forgot to re-connect the audio... or another wire (despite thinking I connected it all properly - and this was with a disassembly guide).

    What's worse,]there is no disassembly guide for PH517-61 to help me keep track of everything.
    Bottom line: its not worth it if I mess something up (and I already had a PH517-61 which ended up going back to Acer for BIOS recovery because their 1.09 version ended up breaking my BIOS - for which they decided to replace the entire motherboard instead [which never arrived, forcing me at the time to get a refund and be without a laptop for over 6 months - which also impeded my studies]).

    Since this (PH517-61) unit is a 'refurbished' unit I got from a seller off e-bay (refurbished in a sense it was never used - just something someone bought initially but decided to return after realizing immediately its not something they wanted or they changed their mind), I (probably) couldn't get a refund if something goes wrong... and I'm not willing to send this thing to Acer (who knows where) and wait for ridiculous amount of time before they do something (delivery of the unit I'd need to pay for myself).

    I'm just not comfortable with doing anything too drastic on this thing as it's too new and expensive, and I'm not willing to risk a malfunction that could destroy the laptop.
    I already had a bad BIOS flash on my previous PH517-61... on this one, I decided to leave stock BIOS (1.07) intact and not risk updating it (because nothing in the 1.08 or 1.09 versions is crucial to the functionality of this unit - and those updates don't include any faster RAM support or ZEn 2 or Zen 3 support) - so you can imagine my trepidation about disassembling it (at some point down the line I may do it... but I cannot bring myself to do it NOW).


    Dex!!  Feels great to be able to actually say something directly.  Been skulking around the various forums for a long while now, and want to say that we share SO MANY views on this Beast.  Fully on the same page about trying to get a Bios upgrade for Zen 2 - possibly Zen 3/ RAM settings/ upgrades.  Willing to even try to get a Kickstarter or GoFundMe started to pay someone whatever is reasonable to do all the work, AS LONG AS IT PRODUCES A REAL, WORKING RESULT, of course...  But I'm getting off topic..

    I'm with you 100% on a diagram of getting this Beast torn down because I don't want to overlook something, or miss a screw, or some other vital component simply because of stupidity, or less than ideal lighting or any other issue..  I want to install a new set of 2x32 gb kit of Ram (hyper X 2666 (curiously has Micron chips instead of the typical Hynix chips I normally see for this kit, so will definitely make it known my results "post surgery"...)) as well as a Killer 1650 wifi card to replace the 1550. 

    Any experience with the IC Diamond Graphite pads vs thermal paste??  I'm considering getting one for at least my CPU (IF we happen to make the BIOS upgrade a reality, I can just swap over the pad without dealing with a repaste..  The GPU and all the little HBM chips could be pricey for the pads, but if the performance is there, I may just bite the bullet to not have to deal with any more pastings if I'm opening this sucker up multiple more times while I've got it, which is very possible IF we get both a Zen 2 Bios and also a Zen 3 Bios as I likely will upgrade to one, then the other later as prices go down...  But until it happens, it's possible I won't be disassembling it again..  So just figured to at least get opinions of the pads performance and if they are at least decent in performance...
  • GlitchedAtBirth
    GlitchedAtBirth Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
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    xapim said:
    eksman2 personally i would use hyperx or vengeance only and i would disassemble it to get it properly upgraded  if you can without voiding your warranty (i know its a pain but ask anyone else here who upgraded it properly even up to 64gb well worth it) i wouldnt trust crucial they just want to sell and they always say they guarantee compatibility but i have seen many issues with their statements but its your choice u have the best ram u can get for a laptop even not clocking at 2666 u already spent the money on it i would keep it and would remove the stock as i already stated anyway good luck  on whatever option u follow but you will never be able to match exactly the stock ram as i already said its proprietary 

    Just wanted to make it known, that I just recently purchased a Hyper X kit of 2x32gb 2666 CL16 kit for my Ryzen beast and it's got Micron chips instead of the typical Hynix chips I typically see in photos of this kit, so this kit is practically a Crucial kit in that reguard.  Just wanted to point this out since Kingston doesn't actually produce their own chips.  If you check out your Hyper X kits, its possible you might just see the M logo on the chips.  It's possible that Kingston has better internal compatibility tests than Micron, which can make all the difference in buying a Crucial kit vs a Kingston kit using Micron chips, but that wasn't clear in your post.  Hoping to just clear that up is all..  Haven't yet installed my kit as I want to try to get a detailed tear down diagram or video to at least prep myself before going in for "surgery."  Also need to get a good thermal solution, either paste or those new graphene pads that seem to be getting great reviews, but are just pricey as ... as something very expensive... since I'd be looking at cutting up a few to cover all those HBM chips on the video card portion if I went fully with pads..  So still a week or two from actually doing anything, but will update everyone on how it all functions, or if it all goes south..
  • GlitchedAtBirth
    GlitchedAtBirth Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
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    I compiled some photos about the disassembly of the ph517-61: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029997/uploads/editor/e4/c0miuckpwx5q.rar
    It will definitely help you.

    Ok, so this HELPED big time.  Originally I didn't mention this as for some reason the first few times I tried to download and extract, the file kept coming back as corrupted, but I decided to try it ONE last time and it actually worked!!  Wanted to say thanks for uploading this!!
  • GlitchedAtBirth
    GlitchedAtBirth Member Posts: 18 Troubleshooter
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    I do have a few questions that I haven't stumbled on in other threads.. If the original sticks are removed, could 2 sticks be placed into the "B" slots (on the accessible side when assembled) and still achieve full 2666 speeds instead of having to populate channel "A"???  Also, is it at all possible to keep the heatsink connected to the mainboard and still reach the two "A" slots to remove the DIMMS??  If I can keep from having to remove the sink and simply populate "B" and remove the two DIMMS in "A" it would obviously be just a tad simpler..  Just curious is all...