PH517-61 Latest BIOS Update and m.2 Ports?

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ToadThumper
ToadThumper Member Posts: 9

Tinkerer

edited November 2023 in 2019 Archives
Hello, I've recently purchased the PH517-61 and am considering returning it due to some bad feedback from the community. Can anyone confirm that of the two m.2 ports, one is ONLY SATA III compatible and both are NOT NVMe? Acer just released a new BIOS on Nov 28. Did anyone update and did that fix any of the problems? Also, well, there's the ram issue ...but I was planning on replacing those anyways. Taking apart the laptop to get to them isn't ideal but it's doable. A content creator's dream only half realized...

Answers

  • ATR42
    ATR42 Member Posts: 54 Devotee WiFi Icon
    edited November 2018
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    the title of the BIOS is "Add 30ms delay time for LED POST CMD to fix abnormal PWM IC"  so im thinking, no.
    nvme vs sata 3 is hardware configuration, bios update isnt gonna change any of that.
    Just stick NVMe in supported slot, use the other with SATAIII. it is two screws and a panel to put in new drives, it takes 2 minutes (not including windows re installation). I installed evo 970 nvme m2, and a sata m2. I removed the platter drive entirely and discarded it.

    Helios 500 . PH517-51-72NU . i7 8750H . GTX1070 . Evo 970 nvme

  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited November 2018
    Options
    Hello, I've recently purchased the PH517-61 and am considering returning it due to some bad feedback from the community. Can anyone confirm that of the two m.2 ports, one is ONLY SATA III compatible and both are NOT NVMe? Acer just released a new BIOS on Nov 28. Did anyone update and did that fix any of the problems? Also, well, there's the ram issue ...but I was planning on replacing those anyways. Taking apart the laptop to get to them isn't ideal but it's doable. A content creator's dream only half realized...
    So just because the 2 pci-e you have are not both nvme you are returning it loool ok that's you decision but to me that's just a stupid decision just wish mine had 2 pci-e lol (don't use nvme tough don't need it and don't see any advantage in it for the average user and just gaming waste of money size wise and for the price of 1tb nvme i got 2tb m.2)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • ToadThumper
    ToadThumper Member Posts: 9

    Tinkerer

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    xapim said:
    Hello, I've recently purchased the PH517-61 and am considering returning it due to some bad feedback from the community. Can anyone confirm that of the two m.2 ports, one is ONLY SATA III compatible and both are NOT NVMe? Acer just released a new BIOS on Nov 28. Did anyone update and did that fix any of the problems? Also, well, there's the ram issue ...but I was planning on replacing those anyways. Taking apart the laptop to get to them isn't ideal but it's doable. A content creator's dream only half realized...
    So just because the 2 pci-e you have are not both nvme you are returning it loool ok that's you decision but to me that's just a stupid decision just wish mine had 2 pci-e lol (don't use nvme tough don't need it and don't see any advantage in it for the average user and just gaming waste of money size wise and for the price of 1tb nvme i got 2tb m.2)
    You're right, for the average user just gaming it would be a waste of money. For someone who was looking to use this as a content creation machine and do a lot of heavy rendering, fast drives are critical, one for reading and one for writing. You try and do both on the same drive and you're just making it work twice as hard and slowing it down. The 2700 with 8 cores and 16 threads is ideal for rendering. At this price, it seemed too good to be true and it was. All I'm saying is if 2 NVMe slots are advertised, it should have two NVMe slots. Though I suppose this also depends on where you get your advertising, as internal specs on this thing are scarce and many people are upset over the same thing. Well, that and supposedly having 2666mhz RAM but coming stock with 2400mhz. Again - depends on where you're finding the advertising. Anyways, thanks for playing and happy gaming!
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited November 2018
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    xapim said:
    Hello, I've recently purchased the PH517-61 and am considering returning it due to some bad feedback from the community. Can anyone confirm that of the two m.2 ports, one is ONLY SATA III compatible and both are NOT NVMe? Acer just released a new BIOS on Nov 28. Did anyone update and did that fix any of the problems? Also, well, there's the ram issue ...but I was planning on replacing those anyways. Taking apart the laptop to get to them isn't ideal but it's doable. A content creator's dream only half realized...
    So just because the 2 pci-e you have are not both nvme you are returning it loool ok that's you decision but to me that's just a stupid decision just wish mine had 2 pci-e lol (don't use nvme tough don't need it and don't see any advantage in it for the average user and just gaming waste of money size wise and for the price of 1tb nvme i got 2tb m.2)
    You're right, for the average user just gaming it would be a waste of money. For someone who was looking to use this as a content creation machine and do a lot of heavy rendering, fast drives are critical, one for reading and one for writing. You try and do both on the same drive and you're just making it work twice as hard and slowing it down. The 2700 with 8 cores and 16 threads is ideal for rendering. At this price, it seemed too good to be true and it was. All I'm saying is if 2 NVMe slots are advertised, it should have two NVMe slots. Though I suppose this also depends on where you get your advertising, as internal specs on this thing are scarce and many people are upset over the same thing. Well, that and supposedly having 2666mhz RAM but coming stock with 2400mhz. Again - depends on where you're finding the advertising. Anyways, thanks for playing and happy gaming!
     @ToadThumper i just assumed you wanted it for average use like almost everyone here but hey for content creation i suggest u get a H500 amd ryzen (not as cheap but the reviews i read for what you want/need are really good) that's the proper machine for content creation etc... (not so good for gaming tough u can't have it all yet) but as far as i read it would still have the same issue with the pci-e nvme slots and regarding the H300 has loads of models in loads of countries not all the specs are the same in all i suppose (it also depends much on the resellers) , my G3-572 came with 8gb kingston 2666 but i literally binned it and got 32gb hyperx (not that will ever use it but hey it's there so no excuse to run out of memory lol)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • ToadThumper
    ToadThumper Member Posts: 9

    Tinkerer

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     @ToadThumper i just assumed you wanted it for average use like almost everyone here but hey for content creation i suggest u get a H500 amd ryzen (not as cheap but the reviews i read for what you want/need are really good) that's the proper machine for content creation etc... (not so good for gaming tough u can't have it all yet) but as far as i read it would still have the same issue with the pci-e nvme slots and regarding the H300 has loads of models in loads of countries not all the specs are the same in all i suppose (it also depends much on the resellers) , my G3-572 came with 8gb kingston 2666 but i literally binned it and got 32gb hyperx (not that will ever use it but hey it's there so no excuse to run out of memory lol)
    @xapim How's your experience with Kingston HyperX been? I have the same 2x16 setup on the laptop I just ordered. Have you noticed a significant difference? The H500 AMD Ryzen setup is what I ordered (PH517-61). https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/predator-series-features/predatorhelios500 About halfway down you'll see it advertised up to 2 NVMe SSDs. There's an annotation at the bottom that this may vary on the model, but the only place I found the info (with exception to others posting the same concern after I had already ordered) is on these forums through the release of clippings by Acer associates from the PH517-61 service manual ...which for some reason Acer doesn't have available to the general public online.

    I really, really want to like this laptop, and I don't even mind the big form factor - even though I travel extensively for work. I've heard the cooling on this thing is amazing! You can even swap out the CPU and AMD has said they're supporting the am4 socket platform through 2020. It sounds so good! But limiting drive speeds like that is such a bottleneck on rendering! - If that's what you use it for. I've used both AMD and Intel/NVIDIA over the years, both with their pros and cons. AMD, in my opinion, has much better driver support reliability, but there's been a visible performance gap in their mid-tier range. I think AMD is going to change the game very soon with the upcoming release of their 7nm CPUs and I'm very much looking forward to it. Unfortunately, I desperately need a computer now and so I'm settling for a specced out Gigabyte Aero 15 v8. Smaller, 100% Adobe color screen (ideal for content creation), and ample fast storage expansions. Little less powerful than I'd like, but it's an acceptable trade-off that'll hopefully get me through the next few years. As you said, can't have everything ...yet. Acer was so close, and I hope someone from their development team is reading this and related threads. I would love to see what lovechild Acer and AMD come up with next, as I will be back...
  • Sfinx
    Sfinx Member Posts: 11

    Tinkerer

    edited November 2018
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    ....
    ~# nvme listNode             SN                   Model                                    Namespace Usage                      Format           FW Rev  ---------------- -------------------- ---------------------------------------- --------- -------------------------- ---------------- --------/dev/nvme0n1     Sxxxxxxxxxxxxxx      Samsung SSD 970 EVO 2TB                  1         503,05  GB /   2,00  TB    512   B +  0 B   1B2QEXE7
    ....

    970 EVO working ok at v1.07 under Linux
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited December 2018
    Options
    @ToadThumper upgrading from 8gb to 32 you will of course notice more performance and the bsods/freezes/crashes in some games are gone (but it all depends on the mobo and what it supports) like i said 8gb these days aren't enough the minimum is 16 or more regarding the H500 ryzen might be one of the few +- accessible laptops where you can upgrade the cpu these days, there are other brands where you can customize/upgrade almost everything but those cost around £10000 or more with sli gpu and yes the cooling it's one of the best on the market right now it's a really nice and powerful beast but bare in mind the small letters.

    1 Specifications may vary depending on model and/or region. All models subject to availability. (this is regading the nvme memory slots)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • RAMChYLD
    RAMChYLD Member Posts: 12

    Tinkerer

    edited October 2019
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    I think I can come up with an explanation on why it only has one NVMe M.2 port.

    It's due to the Ryzen Architecture and by no means Acer's fault. 

    See, the Ryzen 7 CPU only has 24 PCIe 3.0 lanes, four of which are taken by the southbridge, leaving 20 to the user.

    Sixteen is already taken by the Vega56 GPU (you can check GPU-Z to confirm this). This leaves 4 for the NVMe SSD.

    Now, a NVMe 1.3 SSD is uses exactly one x4 lane. So the default NVMe is definitely taking this slot.

    The southbridge chipset chosen for the laptop is the B450 chipset (visible in CPU-Z). The default configuration of the B450 does not pass a PCIe X2 lane out for a secondary slower NVMe 1.2 drive. However B.450 supports 4 SATA 3 ports.

    This is why they can add a hard drive SATA 3 port and a SATA-exclusive SATA 3 port but not offer a second NVMe 3.0 port. 

    Some motherboard manufacturers like Gigabyte has figured out how to hack the B450 to get a second NVMe slot at the expense of losing two SATA ports, but one that only functions at NVMe 1.2 (PCIe X2) specs. Acer probably didn't take this route because they probably felt it wasn't worth the effort (after all, you're only getting half the speed of NVMe 1.3), or were not aware of the hack (which is also possible, since Acer went for the Ryzen 7 2700 instead of another more energy efficient part, the Ryzen 2700e, which sports an even lower TDP with the trade off being a slower memory controller and lower clock speeds but maintained the AM4 socket and 8-core, 16-thread design, and Acer is already throttling the memory speeds of the regular 2700 anyway). 
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited October 2019
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    RAMChYLD you are probably right and the memory 2400mhz lock can be fixed by non supported methods by those bios mod enthusiasts to support probably up to 3200mhz (think i have seen it tested and working in here) but the half speed nvme theres no point in my view to spend money in a good nvme to just have it working at half speed and not everyone needs nvme anyway mainly only content creators and those who do rendering works to me normal sata its more than enough fro those more demanding gamers of all the hundreds of games i have installed between 120/130 including latest only have 2 that i needed to move into the ssd all the otehr are running fine from my external 5tb 2.5 hdd so as i said not everyone needs nvme especially for gaming as not even all games require to be on ssd n order to play them most ppl just upgrade to nvme just because everyone is doing the same but the fact is probably most will never benefit from the full speed of it making it in my view a waste of money but hey this is just me thinking to myself :) but overall the H500 its a beast regarding 


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • RAMChYLD
    RAMChYLD Member Posts: 12

    Tinkerer

    edited October 2019
    Options
    xapim said:
    not everyone needs nvme anyway mainly only content creators and those who do rendering works to me normal sata its more than enough fro those more demanding gamers of all the hundreds of games i have installed between 120/130 including latest only have 2 that i needed to move into the ssd all the otehr are running fine from my external 5tb 2.5 hdd 
    Well, here's the deal. This being a B450 chipset paired with the desktop Ryzen 7 2700 CPU, one can actually run StoreMI on this laptop to build a Hybrid Storage Drive (aka SSHD). I'm actually doing it myself. Pair a slow but large 2.5" HDD with a small and still reasonably fast M.2 SATA SSD and the difference is night and day. I'm using a cheep and cheery Kingston 120GB A400 SATA M.2 SSD (~500MB/s read, ~320MB/s write, and costs about US$25) on the second M.2 slot to hybridize the much slower 1TB, 5400rpm SATA Seagate Barracuda HDD (~140MB/s read/write, costs around US$55) also in the machine.  Games that I frequently play still launched ridiculously fast, and those that I don't, or no longer touch, I don't have to bother to uninstall them, and when I go revisit those titles, they initially start slow, but after a few times of running them they're back to launching at their old, fast speeds. My main OS and high importance tools are still installed on the first NVMe SSD (which I've swapped out for a Samsung, btw, mainly because I run a very specifically customized Windows 10 OS and I didn't want to mess with Acer's install), but yeah- by using StoreMI to build a SSHD, I can have games launch at SATA SSD speeds while still maintaining the large capacity at a low cost offered by HDDs.
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited October 2019
    Options
    Im just running my 2,5" 5tb  hdd on a startech usb 3.0/usb-c3.1 10gbps enclosure :) i have sshd's and to me they are useless i have tested the speeds they will only cache anything when used as OS drive i have a seagate and a toshiba H200 both used as system drives on my other aspires but just for data/games they are slower that the normal hdds :) to me a manufacturer advertising that a sshd its a gaming drive its completely ridiculous it was just one more way that manufacturers invented to sell more drives :p 


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • RAMChYLD
    RAMChYLD Member Posts: 12

    Tinkerer

    edited October 2019
    Options
    xapim said:
    Im just running my 2,5" 5tb  hdd on a startech usb 3.0/usb-c3.1 10gbps enclosure :) i have sshd's and to me they are useless i have tested the speeds they will only cache anything when used as OS drive i have a seagate and a toshiba H200 both used as system drives on my other aspires but just for data/games they are slower that the normal hdds :) to me a manufacturer advertising that a sshd its a gaming drive its completely ridiculous it was just one more way that manufacturers invented to sell more drives :p 
    Noted. Well, I just gave it a go because 1. StoreMI is free to use, and 2. I am fairly interested in SSHDs and drive-caching and actually trying to study the technology (plus, a 120GB M.2 SATA SSD is ridiculously cheap nowadays compared to M.2 NVMe SSDs, perhaps due to their lower performance, but yet are still at least two to four times faster than budget 5400rpm hard drives. And I was planning on installing my 1TB hard drive in the laptop anyway). So yeah. Maybe it's snake oil, but I'm happy with how it turned out.
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited October 2019
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    RAMChYLD as i said above a piece of advice dont go for sshd's its a waste of money :) you will regret it afterwards if youre planning in getting a 1tb drive if its a normal hdd go for a  wd black 7200rpm if its m.2 get a wd blue 3d nand m.2 sata (you can get up to 2tb same as i have but the prices from 1tb to 2tb escalate a bit depending on the country youre in) if you dont need nvme :)


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/  


  • judojack1
    judojack1 Member Posts: 8 New User
    Options
    Need help?? I have a acer predator triton 700 gaming laptop. Currently, have 476GB NVME Liteon CA1-8D512 (RAID) SSD. I understand that the bios is hard set for the SSD to run on Raid 0 config. No bio update to change to AHCI config. I want to place another 476GB NVME Liteon CA1-8D512 (RAID) SSD or       PX-512M9PEG SSD in my 2nd slot. Does this PX-512M9PEG SSD works within a RAID 0 config ?? Unable to find another 476GB NVME Liteon CA1-8D512 (RAID) SSD. 
  • xapim
    xapim ACE Posts: 7,257 Pathfinder
    edited October 2019
    Options
    judojack1 this thread its about the H500 ryzen variant :) and as i said in your previous thread raid 0 has to have drives of the same size to work properly so it should work fine if you add another 512 ssd make sure its also nvme as the stock you already have also give a check on this thread and this one


    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11532543

    UserBenchmarks: Game 43%, Desk 61%, Work 40%
    CPU: Intel Core i5-7300HQ - 63.5%
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 1050-Ti (Mobile) - 41.9%
    SSD: WDC WDS200T2B0B-00YS70 2TB - 71.4%
    HDD: WD WD10SPZX-00HKTT0 1TB - 93.7%
    RAM: Kingston HyperX DDR4 2666 C15 2x16GB - 76.8%
    MBD: Acer Predator G3-572

    I'm not an Acer employee. (just here to help in the best way i can)
    If my answer fixed you issue please accept it for any other users who search for it would find it quickly thanks :)
    If you want to learn more about undervolting/optimizing windows join the Predator fb group and youtube channel:

    Owner/Admin (HOTEL HERO/Red-Sand/Opoka Opoka)
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/PredatorHelios300
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJwGUHxSJ8FKqAhnOqQuAw
    Acer support:
    https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/service-contact
    http://www.acer.com/worldwide/support/