triton 700 pt715-15 thermal thottling at 81c with 1.10 bios why?

Keicchan

Hello there,

i've a triton 700 1080 max q version.. i've a downvolt of about -0.155v on cpu that help the cpu to stay cool (-4/5 degree)  the notebook runs game like hell, no problem at all and no need to overclock, max temps at gpu and cpu combined load without cooling stand in a 24 degree ambient room was 82-78, no thermal thottling detected and works like  charm with bios 1.06..

Two days ago i've updated the bios to 1.10 due to the fix at the touchpad disabled issue and fixed that but now i've some thermal thottling when cpu reach the 81c degree with fans at auto settings... when that happens fans are still at 3.600 rpm, nearly 50% of the setting bar (paired with a manual setup)..

that bring us to two big questions:

why..  81c sure it's not a problem for that notebook or the cpu itself... why did acer change the TT limit for that with the bios update?
why if acer think that 81c on a cpu for that kind of laptop it's too high and need some TT to kick in didnt  simple increase FANS spin (curve) a little to prevent it?!

why did you change something that was working fine before making such a mess?

i'm more than sure about it because i check my temps at full load weekly for some reviews and testing and be sure that dust or anything else it's making it hotter and thermal thottling never happens before to me and sure not at 81degree celsius.

can i have some explanation?

regards

D.A.

Skree

I can confirm lower performance in Pillars of Eternity 2... much, much lower. I am getting 60 to 50 fps, where i remember i was around 100, and we're speaking about an isometric RPG (although a quite "heavy" rpg, strange as it may seem).

We're still talking about a performance drop that is almost 50% lower than before.

I can confirm that this seems to have happened after the bios update to 1.10.

Keicchan

Hello there, i've got some news about my problem...

3 days ago (on monday)  the acer tech comes onsite bringing with him a new motherboard replacement (with gpu and cpu soldered), while teardown the laptop after he raised up the copper cooler/heatsink from cpu-gpu we notice that half of the CPU surface was not covered with thermal paste, the other half was totally dry and nearly falling as ashed when he cleaned it.. gpu paste was ok

after some cleanings from the fan and heatsink we agreed that maybe we could do a test repasting it before trowing a full motherboard on the garbage..

after full cleaning, repasting and reassembly i ran some tests and i've got a -8 degree while gaming (battletech, the same exact game i was running in the previus screenshot when the pc shut down or TT was detected the pc keep 68-67 degree costantly) on both cpu and gpu, no more TT detection on xtu or aida and 88 degree max in combined stress test after 30mins, without AC, 25 ambient degree, no cooling pad and not raised from the table ... a truly marvelous unicorn-like image.

We agreed to let me test it for a couple of days at home in my friendly enviroment and let him know without closing the case.

yesterday i've told him to close the case because it's working as a charm... he told me that probably what was causing the issue after the bios update was a changing in tollerances from the reading temperature sensors of the cpu/core.. maybe the core that was turboboosting 3.8ghz get some heat spikes that make the MB goes in thermal protection all of the sudden.. he cannot assure at 100% because they didn't recieve any bios release notes and change list from acer .. this is just the most likely situation about what happens.

He told me that the new motherboard will not be shipped back to acer, they will keep that in the local storehouse (italy rome), probably i'm the only one with this kind of notebook in my town (i know for sure there are at least two of us.. me and skree) for any future necessity (my warranty cover the notebook till may 2021).

and now it's done.. the best support "from acer" i've ever recieved since when i buy this laptop and tried to activate the acer care plus... (that was a nightmare instead).

i've also got a new score in heaven 4 at ultra preset 2472 with 1847mhz as new gpu boost frequency

Keicchan

This is ridiculus... throttling detected at 75° with 38% cpu utilization... without any kind of stress test running.. just a game opened.. aida64 detect TT too... but if you whatch carefully, core frequency didnt change at all .... this is happening after bios update 1.10 from 1.06

Skree

Just a hunch: lower your undervolting. Bring it from -155 to -120, and see if it still does that.

Keicchan

Hi, thanks for dropping by, yeah i was thinking that may be some issue with limited power too but doesent change the situation...

with -120 it start TT at 65 degree ... WOW!

without any downvolt just with the same game and same load as in the post before it reach 4-5 degree more and of course TT as mad.

i was thinking about a way to switch back to bios 1.06 using official tools, dunno..

Red-Sand

Try removing your undervolt software completely (uninstall xtu or if TS then remove config file and shut down *not reboot*) then default your BIOs (F2 to enter BIOs - F9 to default - F10 to save and exit) and see if there wasn't an "air bubble" in the BIOs for voltage.

Keicchan

I've tried some more with and without acer support specialist too, more specificatly:

uninstalled predatorSense and reinstalled it (i did not update it since i buy the laptop in may but at least i was already using the latest version)
removed the cpu undervolt and cleared the pc about xtu and aida64 software and config, i cannot detect TT from those anymore but watching carefully to cpuz frequency i can still notice that it's TTling.

I've also followed your sujestion about defaulting the bios config, but triton 700 bios it's full locked in every version so there wasnt much to default ;D, done it anyway (it takes few secs so why not).. same things, it feels that it's TTling..

i'm leaving the office right now, at home i'll try a long gaming session and see if it shutdown (keeping the temps in view in a second display this time).

Thanks for your partecipation

Cya

Keicchan

Ho alcune news, verificando il carico di gpu e cpu nei giochi con afterburner insieme alle temperature ho notato uno strano bottleneck della gpu nonostante il carico fosse massimo 60%.. con tutti e 8 i core logici praticamente intorno al 14%.. ottenendo solo 58-62fps

suppongo che xtu come aida64 quello che segnala come TT nn sia legato alla cpu ma alla gpu (infatti non si vedono drop di frequenza nella cpu)

ho quindi provato a tenere sotto controllo la gpu con furmark attivo... e infatti la gpu droppa a 999mhz di core gia intorno ai 68 gradi (su questo notebook le heatsink sono praticamente condivise tra gpu e cpu) considerando che il base clock e' 1101 a normal -1290 MHz  in OC da predator sense (base clock che riesce mantenere forse per 4-5 secondi partendo dalla temperatura idle di 48 gradi).. figuriamoci  che le frequenze di boost della gpu (1278 a normal-1458 MHz in overclock da predator sense) non ci si avvicina nemmeno nel primissimo secondo di carico.

Qualcosa decisamente non va dopo l' aggiornamento del bios..

Skree

Ok, hai avuto *****, sono italiano pure io XD
E ho il Triton 700 con 1080 max-q, come te. Installo Furmark e tengo d'occhio la frequenza, ultimamente stavo giocando a gdr isometrici quindi eventuali problemi non li avrei mai notati. 

Aggiorno a breve.

Keicchan

oh! un compagno d' armi... penso in italia ne abbiano venduti 3 di questi notebook con 1080 ;D

con che bios sei? 

cmq furmark ha dei pro e dei contro, la ciambella pelosa della morte tira fuori tutto quello che una gpu puo dare ma e' facile che ti porti anche a toccare il limite di potenza "LIMIT POWER", 

sto facendo degli altri test con qualcosa di piu realistico per vedere come si comporta.. 

Red-Sand

When you say you notice it's thermal throttling when using cpuz...

Are you aware that after your CPU has ran at maximum clock speed for 28 seconds the TDP (package power) drops considerably there after?

For example: The i7-7700HQ when all cores are running will operate at 3.4ghz for 28 seconds... then TDP will drop and all cores will slow to 3.0 - 3.2ghz.

This is not a thermal throttle but a power throttle whoch is set by Intel and hard coded into the chip/chipset.

Skree

I agree. Same results here. GPU core clocks go down to 999, i have the same exact issue of keicchan.

This is not good. Can ACEs send a warning to devs or acer staff? @Red-Sand ?

Red-Sand

Skree said:

I agree. Same results here. GPU core clocks go down to 999, i have the same exact issue of keicchan.

This is not good. Can ACEs send a warning to devs or acer staff? @Red-Sand ?

I haven't been able to translate as Im traveling at the moment.
Could you summarize?

Power limit throttle is what the CPU does after 28 seconds but whats happening with your GPU exactly?

Skree

Red-Sand said:

Skree said:

I agree. Same results here. GPU core clocks go down to 999, i have the same exact issue of keicchan.

This is not good. Can ACEs send a warning to devs or acer staff? @Red-Sand ?

I haven't been able to translate as Im traveling at the moment.
Could you summarize?

Power limit throttle is what the CPU does after 28 seconds but whats happening with your GPU exactly?

GPU core clocks run down from the 1200ish that it should down to 999 at temps that are around 64°C.

Mostly it's just this. We both ran Furmark, with GPU-Z open to check for core clock, it went for a while to 1200, 1180, but then as the test went on it went down to 999 as if thermal throttling... but the temps weren't that high, CPU was about 60 degrees for me, and GPU was never above 66.

Me and Keicchan have the same exact behaviour from the GPU, so i think it is unlikely that it is a hardware issue, as he says, it seems more an issue craeted by the last bios update.

Keyword is "it seems". I am now installing Far Cry 5 to see if performance is worse, i was not gaming lately.

Red-Sand

Skree said:

Red-Sand said:

Skree said:

I agree. Same results here. GPU core clocks go down to 999, i have the same exact issue of keicchan.

This is not good. Can ACEs send a warning to devs or acer staff? @Red-Sand ?

I haven't been able to translate as Im traveling at the moment.
Could you summarize?

Power limit throttle is what the CPU does after 28 seconds but whats happening with your GPU exactly?

GPU core clocks run down from the 1200ish that it should down to 999 at temps that are around 64°C.

Mostly it's just this. We both ran Furmark, with GPU-Z open to check for core clock, it went for a while to 1200, 1180, but then as the test went on it went down to 999 as if thermal throttling... but the temps weren't that high, CPU was about 60 degrees for me, and GPU was never above 66.

Me and Keicchan have the same exact behaviour from the GPU, so i think it is unlikely that it is a hardware issue, as he says, it seems more an issue craeted by the last bios update.

Keyword is "it seems". I am now installing Far Cry 5 to see if performance is worse, i was not gaming lately.

I now have access as an ACE to more detailed info for products.

Send me your exact model info and I'll check the spec sheet for throttle limit values.

Red-Sand

In the meantime if your using throttlestop can you disable BDPROCHOT checkbox on the main page of TS and see if it removes the limit?

Skree

Red-Sand said:

Skree said:

Red-Sand said:

Skree said:

I agree. Same results here. GPU core clocks go down to 999, i have the same exact issue of keicchan.

This is not good. Can ACEs send a warning to devs or acer staff? @Red-Sand ?

I haven't been able to translate as Im traveling at the moment.
Could you summarize?

Power limit throttle is what the CPU does after 28 seconds but whats happening with your GPU exactly?

GPU core clocks run down from the 1200ish that it should down to 999 at temps that are around 64°C.

Mostly it's just this. We both ran Furmark, with GPU-Z open to check for core clock, it went for a while to 1200, 1180, but then as the test went on it went down to 999 as if thermal throttling... but the temps weren't that high, CPU was about 60 degrees for me, and GPU was never above 66.

Me and Keicchan have the same exact behaviour from the GPU, so i think it is unlikely that it is a hardware issue, as he says, it seems more an issue craeted by the last bios update.

Keyword is "it seems". I am now installing Far Cry 5 to see if performance is worse, i was not gaming lately.

I now have access as an ACE to more detailed info for products.

Send me your exact model info and I'll check the spec sheet for throttle limit values.

Predator PT715-51

Keicchan should have the same exact model, here in Italy they marketed only this and the 1060 one.

Keicchan

yes i'm aware what's turboboost and base clock are;) in the stress test it drop below 2.8mhz for some secs than raise up again before dropping again(i can notice that better in cpuz due to the fast update rate of the information without install back xtu or afterburner) by the way in a normal game scenario it keep 3.510 without any problem like it is turboboosting all the time (dunno why exactly,i didnt change anything about that and there is not an option to disable or enable turboboost at all in the bios, same for the gpu it's turboinng 100% the time over the max clock of the factory nearly reaching a full 1080 non maxq at 1800mhz... ) 
in the meanwhile i was surfing the forum, as u can see i keep the game opened (30mins running now) with an a/c room temp of 24 degree and it's keeping 3510 cpu and 1810 gpu without any oc or anything changed from me... (i've updated and reinstalled ab) and i would be totally happy about that if it stay stable... the notebook since the bios update it's starting to shutdown itself randomly like it was overheating.. with the same exact game i'm testing right now.. and it's not definitly overheating... so something weird it's happening 

check the afterburner graph now... dunno performance are amazing but .. it shutdown itself randomly!.. 


ps. sorry about the previus ITALIAN post.. it 's an hard day and wrote many email about it with the support requesting data and i missconfused it



AAAAAND IT TURNED OFF AGAIN JUST NOW WITH THOSE TEMPS!... that's the problem... 82 degree and 77 ... and it turns off like it's overheating..

just keeping the game opened .. the exact same game i've played in august at home with 32 degree ambient without any single problem at all ...

Skree

Hmm, as i have suggested with the private message, see if the computer reboots itself if you lower your undervolting from -155 to -120.

I too had undervolted to -150, and it *seemed* stable... but in some games i experienced crashes. I lowered to -120 and had a stable system since.

Red-Sand

Yeah according to the spec sheet your temps are no where near throttle points.



Has this always been the case or did it happen recently?

Keicchan

as i discorver recently from the acer care plus support mine it's not an italian one, the serial start with NHQ and was listed in the UK database (i've bought it via amazon.it)

same model pt715-15 with 1080 maxq... to make a recap of my actual situation: since friday when i've updated from 1.06 bios  to 1.10 and it start to shut down itself and act strangly (according about how was working before that)... so i start to dig in to figured out what exactly happens

Skree

I can confirm lower performance in Pillars of Eternity 2... much, much lower. I am getting 60 to 50 fps, where i remember i was around 100, and we're speaking about an isometric RPG (although a quite "heavy" rpg, strange as it may seem).

We're still talking about a performance drop that is almost 50% lower than before.

I can confirm that this seems to have happened after the bios update to 1.10.