Speedshift in Throttlestop and some questions on undervolting

Skree

Update: played Vampyr also, temperature never even went beyond 70... before it reached up to 90.

Extremely satisfied by throttlestop... but at the cost of repeating myself, it ridiculous that we must fiddle and fix these settings.

Thank you again, Red-Sand.

Red-Sand

If it makes you feel any better >

I own MANY laptops, it's one of the perks of my job.. I own Alienware R4 17, Razer Blade Stealth, Pred 17, Helios etc etc. 

Each one of these "overheats". The problem isn't with Acers systems only, it's actually the design of the CPUs from Intel. They design these CPUs to run hot, and even if you were hitting 90 C and were to contact Intel, they would tell you it's perfectly normal. Although I completely agree with you that they could definately have optimized their chips better. 

In any case, glad it helped brother. 
Enjoy! 

Skree

Yeah... i would also like to check what kind of thermal compound they use, and how they put it on. For machines like these they surely could use some premium thermal, like artic or even some metal one.

Somehow something makes me think they use one they buy in bulk and is of crapverse quality.

Queen6

Red-Sand said:

If it makes you feel any better >

I own MANY laptops, it's one of the perks of my job.. I own Alienware R4 17, Razer Blade Stealth, Pred 17, Helios etc etc. 

Each one of these "overheats". The problem isn't with Acers systems only, it's actually the design of the CPUs from Intel. They design these CPUs to run hot, and even if you were hitting 90 C and were to contact Intel, they would tell you it's perfectly normal. Although I completely agree with you that they could definately have optimized their chips better. 

In any case, glad it helped brother. 
Enjoy! 

Very much agree, all performance orientated notebooks run hot, with tradeoffs between size and fan noise, P-17 can run relatively cool & quiet equally a massive notebook. New Asus S7BS (GL703GS) sheds a good kilo of weight and much thinner, however in performance mode fans are very prominent, although in this case Asus does have a good cooling solution in place for the Intel 8750H & GTX 1070 etc.

S7BS (GL703GS) - Lots of copper and fans, I also prefer the quad mounting of the heat spreaders for the CPU / GPU, with CPU cores being mostly within 2 degrees centigrade of one another.  My P-17 with the triangle mounting design can see as much as 15C differential between CPU cores under heavy loads.  No doubt would benefit from a re-paste and tweaking the mountings, equally no throttling with a -130mV undervolt, so not worth the hassle until the cooling system needs to be cleaned.

S7BS is hitting 1266CB for the 64bit multicore test on Cinebench R15, which is good for it's class maybe more to come, however would need to look at increasing the Turbo Time Limit, equally under Prime95 Small FFT the CPU can pull as much as 85W (PL-2 being 90W, PL-1 45W) even with a -150mV undervolt.  Likely the limits Asus have in place are conservative, yet in place for reason.

Q-6

Queen6

Skree said:

Yeah... i would also like to check what kind of thermal compound they use, and how they put it on. For machines like these they surely could use some premium thermal, like artic or even some metal one.

Somehow something makes me think they use one they buy in bulk and is of crapverse quality.

Mostly it's due to longevity and of course cost is a factor.  The OEM's need to ensure that the thermal paste is basically ok for the duration of the products lifecycle.  Some do better than others, but mostly opinion...

Q-6

Skree

Queen6 said:

Skree said:

Yeah... i would also like to check what kind of thermal compound they use, and how they put it on. For machines like these they surely could use some premium thermal, like artic or even some metal one.

Somehow something makes me think they use one they buy in bulk and is of crapverse quality.

Mostly it's due to longevity and of course cost is a factor.  The OEM's need to ensure that the thermal paste is basically ok for the duration of the products lifecycle.  Some do better than others, but mostly opinion...

Q-6

Yeah, ok, but in the name of Turing, these things are sold for 1000, 2000 or even 3000 quids.

They could very bloody well spend 50 of those quids on top notch thermal compound. No?

Red-Sand

@Skree
They could but as far as I know only the Clevo systems offer specialty thermal paste. 
As a producer of mass electronics I imagine having thermal compound in house would be vastly cheaper then let's say, putting Kryonaut on all their laptops. 
Additionally Acer creates 90% of their own hardware (cpu - ram - gpu - drives excluded of course) and in all seriousness Acers thermal paste is actually MUCH better then most brands I deal with. 

Skree

Red-Sand said:

@Skree
They could but as far as I know only the Clevo systems offer specialty thermal paste. 
As a producer of mass electronics I imagine having thermal compound in house would be vastly cheaper then let's say, putting Kryonaut on all their laptops. 
Additionally Acer creates 90% of their own hardware (cpu - ram - gpu - drives excluded of course) and in all seriousness Acers thermal paste is actually MUCH better then most brands I deal with. 

Really? It surprises me. I admit i was divided beetween the Triton 700 and the Asus Zephyrus, and went finally with the triton because reviews were generally considering it superior... and i didn't much like the opening mechanism on the lower part of the Zephyrus, it seems like a weak point and an entry point for dust.

Since you seem to test many of them, do you have the same impression on that machine?

Secondly, about the past, i seem to recall of reading here that acer put it often badly... you have instead found that it is even better than the norm? I guess someone is simply unlucky. The topic does interest me however, especially about something you said, that acer makes its own hardware... you say it as if other brands do not? Would you elaborate?

Since writing can lead to misunderstanding, i am simply quite curious about this, i like to understand how stuff works. I appreciate the opportunity to learn something new, especially from someone who has tried many different brands, so thank you right now

Queen6

Skree said:

Queen6 said:

Skree said:

Yeah... i would also like to check what kind of thermal compound they use, and how they put it on. For machines like these they surely could use some premium thermal, like artic or even some metal one.

Somehow something makes me think they use one they buy in bulk and is of crapverse quality.

Mostly it's due to longevity and of course cost is a factor.  The OEM's need to ensure that the thermal paste is basically ok for the duration of the products lifecycle.  Some do better than others, but mostly opinion...

Q-6

Yeah, ok, but in the name of Turing, these things are sold for 1000, 2000 or even 3000 quids.

They could very bloody well spend 50 of those quids on top notch thermal compound. No?

A lot's more down to the application and design.  I don't see the OEM paste as being horrendously bad, however when mated with poor clamping solutions (tri versus quad) and poor application it adds up.

I'm not excusing, just my opinion.  There are specialist vendors that will mod the notebook prior to delivery at a cost, with a more efficient past or even LM and retain full warranty coverage.

Q-6

Red-Sand

@Skree
Acer making their own hardware is actually very rare. 
Even Alienware was taken from a third party company and bought out by Dell. I'm not saying they are the only ones, merely that they have been doing it probably for the longest amount of time. 

When I say Acers thermal paste is better then most I mean the actual compound itself, the method in which its applied is done by a machine so application may vary depending on the machines efficiency at the time, and I've had PLENTY of terrible paste jobs on computers that cost 3k$ +. It's just a machine error. 

I personally would take Acer over Asus with the same specs, simply because of the duration of lifetime for Acers hardware. I still have a Acer netbook I've had for about 8 YEARS and it still works fine. 

Some people have good experiences. And some have bad ones and base everything on that single experience.. I've been fortunate enough to test basically every brand on the market (multiple times). And I've found Acer to be very solid and priced reasonably. 

So let me elaborate quickly on hardware creation. 

Would you rather have someone build something for you that's been doing it for 40 years or for 10-20?

Skree

Nothing to say. In truth, i usually check repair statistics and two years failure projections per brand... and asus was the brand with the least failures (HP the one with most failures, if you're curious, at least in the data i checked at the time).

But all in all i completely understand the mechanic of silent majority/screaming minority. Satisfied and happy customers usually are silent, it's the ones who have defective products who write and make noise. So if you go in tech support forums of a brand it seems like it's ***** as the majority of posts are of people seeking help.

I admit i always considered asus superior to acer, and products like clevo customizers in top tier (when they are good). But all in all... the brand is relatively unimportant for me. What's important is that it works, not what symbol i get on the back cover.

The MSI dragon is kickass, i must say.

sri369

Red-Sand said:

Oh I see.... That is odd. 

Are you sure the task schedule osisetupcjust like the guide? 

Yes! Dot to dot!

sri369

Red-Sand said:

If it makes you feel any better >

I own MANY laptops, it's one of the perks of my job.. I own Alienware R4 17, Razer Blade Stealth, Pred 17, Helios etc etc. 

Each one of these "overheats". The problem isn't with Acers systems only, it's actually the design of the CPUs from Intel. They design these CPUs to run hot, and even if you were hitting 90 C and were to contact Intel, they would tell you it's perfectly normal. Although I completely agree with you that they could definately have optimized their chips better. 

In any case, glad it helped brother. 
Enjoy! 

I have a Asus RoG from 2012, and still going strong. Had to replace it only cos though its i7 was strong, the 660M nvidia wasn't that strong to pull in latest AAA games on ultra. It did pull them strong on medium settings though. Also, there was 0 fiddling done on it, and temps never reached as high as this one does. Thanks to ThrottleStop n such for keeping temps like they ought to be.

And to be frank, G3-572 is the only laptop I have had to fiddle so much and was so unusable out of box. None of my earlier 5 laptops had any such issues. This is my 6th.

Skree

sri369 said:

Red-Sand said:

If it makes you feel any better >

I own MANY laptops, it's one of the perks of my job.. I own Alienware R4 17, Razer Blade Stealth, Pred 17, Helios etc etc. 

Each one of these "overheats". The problem isn't with Acers systems only, it's actually the design of the CPUs from Intel. They design these CPUs to run hot, and even if you were hitting 90 C and were to contact Intel, they would tell you it's perfectly normal. Although I completely agree with you that they could definately have optimized their chips better. 

In any case, glad it helped brother. 
Enjoy! 

I have a Asus RoG from 2012, and still going strong. Had to replace it only cos though its i7 was strong, the 660M nvidia wasn't that strong to pull in latest AAA games on ultra. It did pull them strong on medium settings though. Also, there was 0 fiddling done on it, and temps never reached as high as this one does. Thanks to ThrottleStop n such for keeping temps like they ought to be.

And to be frank, G3-572 is the only laptop I have had to fiddle so much and was so unusable out of box. None of my earlier 5 laptops had any such issues. This is my 6th.

I feel for you. And overall i agree. By purchasing the Triton i went as an early adopter of max-q technology... and i partially regret it. 

Partially because it is a great machine, but if it becomes so hot as to cause pain if you touch it in the wrong place there is something wrong. And if you have to fix the temps yourself to get usable temperatures... that's ridicolous. I am relatively good with hardware and software, at the very least i can follow instructions, but imagine some kid who gets a laptop from his parents, or if someone who is not tech savvy finds himself in yours or mine own situation. He can't solve it and if he tries to solve it he risks bricking his system.

It's a shame and doesn't bring any honor to the manufacturer. If you purchase a product that costs a thousand dollars, or several thousand dollars, it *should* work perfectly out of the box. It's not like if you buy a BMW then you must fiddle around with the engine yourself, don't you?

sri369

@Red-Sand

After throttle stop... here's my core and gpu temps with some light activity going on (surfing) with my steam chats and uplay chats - very much lower compared to without it. And all I did was lower the voltages (didn't touch anything else).

Thanks buddy, for that starting this app via windows task hint. Don't bother about tray icon not showing up... cos well... it is working :-)

Queen6

No brand preference, just what makes sense for the job. Right now this one is coming on real strong, one of the highest results I've seen on the web for a notebook with Intel's new 8750H hex core CPU.
FWIW Windows 10 Pro 1803 all up, not stripped down. OpenGL in the region of 103 - 105 FPS, 3 year national warranty and 2 year international warranty included, credit where credits due - Asus S7BS750 (GL703GS)

Q-6

sri369

Posting results after 2 days...

Played ghost recon wildlands at ultra, like i always did.

Without undervolting: 80-90, spikes to 95
Intel XTU: 70-85, spikes to 90; scaled this down to 70-80, spikes to 85-90 with a USB fan
ThrottleStop: 60-70, spikes to 75 <-- this is without USB fan!!!

Thanks to @Red-Sand for helping me set up TS to be loaded as a task

ThrottleStop screenshot below: 1: RUST, 2: Ghost Recon Wildlands @ ultra
Rest are normal loads before and after the games.

heckmanarn

Great!!! I'm a bit thorough in my removals lol


---------------------------------
Clamshell Blister Packaging

wys1314

So great to see this, I'm facing exact the same issue with @sri369. With the same game and Intel XTU it's bring me a result of: 70-85, spikes to 97! Will try tonight after work..... Hope that's work for me T.T

OliverM3

Skree said:

I feel for you. And overall i agree. By purchasing the Triton i went as an early adopter of max-q technology... and i partially regret it. 

Partially because it is a great machine, but if it becomes so hot as to cause pain if you touch it in the wrong place there is something wrong. And if you have to fix the temps yourself to get usable temperatures... that's ridicolous. I am relatively good with hardware and software, at the very least i can follow instructions, but imagine some kid who gets a laptop from his parents, or if someone who is not tech savvy finds himself in yours or mine own situation. He can't solve it and if he tries to solve it he risks bricking his system.

It's a shame and doesn't bring any honor to the manufacturer. If you purchase a product that costs a thousand dollars, or several thousand dollars, it *should* work perfectly out of the box. It's not like if you buy a BMW then you must fiddle around with the engine yourself, don't you?

I don't know why you regret the Max-Q I'm loving it on the Triton 700 I run it overclocked on turbo 100% of the time when gaming it's fantastic pushing the Mhz to close to that of my desktop. In our systems they run so cool I'm in the 70-80c overclocked running any game or stress test with auto fans.

Coming from my MSI that thing would scream while playing games. I agree manufacturers should use better thermal paste but the average users probably doesn't even care about thermals just fps so if the cpu is under the thermal limit while doing normal activities they wouldn't even know or care. The GPU was always under the thermal limit even before repasting.  

Looking at all the recent thin and lights they all throttle like crazy and some you can't even tweak to pass a stress test without thermal throttling.