Predator G3-572

xapim

Hi i have a brand new Helios 300 i5 GTX1050TI and i have a question about the battery because i have all my laptops on 24/7 connected to the mains (including this one) but all the others i removed the batteries to not damaged them the issue is because the helios battery cannot be removed will it not get knackered over time by staying always on connected to the mains

christy1

Hi,
if the unit is connected to the main always then definitely it will damage the battery. 

DosWasBest

I don't think that's true.  My portable ac power to my Predator is metered and shows working at around 50% when I connect the Predator in a situation where the battery is not fully charged.  Once the battery fully charges, my portable ac drops down to about 25%.   I take this to mean that the computer now takes the battery out of the ac circuit since it's now fully charged.  Any power going to the computer, is now ac, bypassing any battery-charge routines.

I would agree that batteries last longer if they are occasionally run in the computer until very low or ready for complete recharge.  I believe that, in theory, extends the life somewhat over the long course of time.

If a continual feed of ac power were accepted by a fully charged battery, it seems to me, that would cause a fire or explosion danger.  Which of course, does not happen, because the computer stops ac flowing to the battery once fully charged.

That's at least how I understand these things.

christy1

 Lithium ion batteries have a limited shelf-life anyway. If you left a lithium-ion battery on the shelf unused, it will deteriorate in battery life anyway. The amount of charge that the battery holds while it is being stored affects its lifetime, a battery stored at 100% charge ends up with shorter battery life than one stored at 40-50% (the ideal storage charge). So if you are going to leave a laptop for a long time and are worried about battery life, run it down to 40% (and optionally put it in a water-tight bag, in a fridge, not a freezer, a fridge). Technically this does mean actually that it would be better for laptop battery life to keep the battery charge at around 40-50% all the time, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop battery.

HOWEVER, there may be one situation where you might want to do a full discharge - all laptops have a small circuit that keeps track of the charge level on the battery, called the battery fuel gauge. Measuring the capacity of a battery is not an exact science, so this circuit needs calibration. This is why manufacturers recommend that you should do a full charge and then discharge when you get a new battery or device - it's not because this does anything good for battery life, but rather because it gives an opportunity for the battery fuel gauge circuit to calibrate itself to display the correct battery capacity. Nothing happens if you don't do this, other than an incorrect battery life reading.

After you've used a battery for a long time, particularly if you keep it plugged in all the time, the battery fuel gauge might get a bit "out of sync" with the battery (accumulated measurement errors, change in battery life, etc.) and no longer show a correct battery life reading. Doing a full charge/discharge cycle recalibrates the fuel gauge, allowing it to display a more accurate battery life reading. But this is a purely cosmetic thing - it doesn't do anything for the actual battery life.

Be careful about a lot of the myths about battery care, a lot of them stem from advice given for NiMH/NiCad batteries (which are very rare in laptops these days), many of which either do not apply, or are completely opposite to the recommendations for Lithium ion batteries.

xapim

christy1 said:

 Lithium ion batteries have a limited shelf-life anyway. If you left a lithium-ion battery on the shelf unused, it will deteriorate in battery life anyway. The amount of charge that the battery holds while it is being stored affects its lifetime, a battery stored at 100% charge ends up with shorter battery life than one stored at 40-50% (the ideal storage charge). So if you are going to leave a laptop for a long time and are worried about battery life, run it down to 40% (and optionally put it in a water-tight bag, in a fridge, not a freezer, a fridge). Technically this does mean actually that it would be better for laptop battery life to keep the battery charge at around 40-50% all the time, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop battery.

HOWEVER, there may be one situation where you might want to do a full discharge - all laptops have a small circuit that keeps track of the charge level on the battery, called the battery fuel gauge. Measuring the capacity of a battery is not an exact science, so this circuit needs calibration. This is why manufacturers recommend that you should do a full charge and then discharge when you get a new battery or device - it's not because this does anything good for battery life, but rather because it gives an opportunity for the battery fuel gauge circuit to calibrate itself to display the correct battery capacity. Nothing happens if you don't do this, other than an incorrect battery life reading.

After you've used a battery for a long time, particularly if you keep it plugged in all the time, the battery fuel gauge might get a bit "out of sync" with the battery (accumulated measurement errors, change in battery life, etc.) and no longer show a correct battery life reading. Doing a full charge/discharge cycle recalibrates the fuel gauge, allowing it to display a more accurate battery life reading. But this is a purely cosmetic thing - it doesn't do anything for the actual battery life.

Be careful about a lot of the myths about battery care, a lot of them stem from advice given for NiMH/NiCad batteries (which are very rare in laptops these days), many of which either do not apply, or are completely opposite to the recommendations for Lithium ion batteries.

Thanks for the reply for the meantime what i am doing is completely deplete the battery every 1 or 2 weeks because as i said the laptop is on 24/7 which is not good for the battery but maybe in future i will just switch it of internally for awhile and back on to charge it when needed

xapim

DosWasBest said:

I don't think that's true.  My portable ac power to my Predator is metered and shows working at around 50% when I connect the Predator in a situation where the battery is not fully charged.  Once the battery fully charges, my portable ac drops down to about 25%.   I take this to mean that the computer now takes the battery out of the ac circuit since it's now fully charged.  Any power going to the computer, is now ac, bypassing any battery-charge routines.

I would agree that batteries last longer if they are occasionally run in the computer until very low or ready for complete recharge.  I believe that, in theory, extends the life somewhat over the long course of time.

If a continual feed of ac power were accepted by a fully charged battery, it seems to me, that would cause a fire or explosion danger.  Which of course, does not happen, because the computer stops ac flowing to the battery once fully charged.

That's at least how I understand these things.

Thanks for the reply i suspected it should have some kind of kill switch like some mobiles when they are full to not damage the battery but i never measured the power from the ac before

sri369

Get a software like the one in screenshot that shows charge and discharge rates too to get a better idea of how much current is going to battery. The one I am using is a freeware.

sri369

christy1 said:

Hi,
if the unit is connected to the main always then definitely it will damage the battery. 

Nope. It won't. Before my current laptop, I had one gamer laptop (not counting the two others - one for my wife n one for my office), all three connected on A/C literally 100% of the time.
After 5.5 years... gamer laptop battery at 46% wear,
After 6 years... wife's laptop at 45% wear,
After 1.5 years... my work laptop at 3% wear.

Modern phones and laptop bypass battery charging when their charge reaches 100%.

sri369

xapim said:

i got the battery bar pro and if the software is accurate it shows charge rate 0 mW and battery wear 4.1% of 48,944 mWh capacity 46,953 mWh elaped time 16:07 (i guess hours?) full runtime always showing calculating...

But i always let the battery run out every 2 weeks anyway

2 weeks is an overkill, if you are doing it only for the sake of it. You can go on with a full discharge about once in 2-3 months.

xapim

sri369 said:

xapim said:

i got the battery bar pro and if the software is accurate it shows charge rate 0 mW and battery wear 4.1% of 48,944 mWh capacity 46,953 mWh elaped time 16:07 (i guess hours?) full runtime always showing calculating...

But i always let the battery run out every 2 weeks anyway

2 weeks is an overkill, if you are doing it only for the sake of it. You can go on with a full discharge about once in 2-3 months.

Thanks for the advice i was just doing what the acer support recomended when i contacted them about the battery always on 24/7 they also advised i could just open the laptop (easiest laptop i had ever opened) and just disconnect the battery if im always on A/C 24/7 if not just let it discharge completely every 2 weeks those were the 2 options they gave me LOL

christy1

Hi,
if the unit is connected to the main always then definitely it will damage the battery. 

DosWasBest

I don't think that's true.  My portable ac power to my Predator is metered and shows working at around 50% when I connect the Predator in a situation where the battery is not fully charged.  Once the battery fully charges, my portable ac drops down to about 25%.   I take this to mean that the computer now takes the battery out of the ac circuit since it's now fully charged.  Any power going to the computer, is now ac, bypassing any battery-charge routines.

I would agree that batteries last longer if they are occasionally run in the computer until very low or ready for complete recharge.  I believe that, in theory, extends the life somewhat over the long course of time.

If a continual feed of ac power were accepted by a fully charged battery, it seems to me, that would cause a fire or explosion danger.  Which of course, does not happen, because the computer stops ac flowing to the battery once fully charged.

That's at least how I understand these things.

christy1

 Lithium ion batteries have a limited shelf-life anyway. If you left a lithium-ion battery on the shelf unused, it will deteriorate in battery life anyway. The amount of charge that the battery holds while it is being stored affects its lifetime, a battery stored at 100% charge ends up with shorter battery life than one stored at 40-50% (the ideal storage charge). So if you are going to leave a laptop for a long time and are worried about battery life, run it down to 40% (and optionally put it in a water-tight bag, in a fridge, not a freezer, a fridge). Technically this does mean actually that it would be better for laptop battery life to keep the battery charge at around 40-50% all the time, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop battery.

HOWEVER, there may be one situation where you might want to do a full discharge - all laptops have a small circuit that keeps track of the charge level on the battery, called the battery fuel gauge. Measuring the capacity of a battery is not an exact science, so this circuit needs calibration. This is why manufacturers recommend that you should do a full charge and then discharge when you get a new battery or device - it's not because this does anything good for battery life, but rather because it gives an opportunity for the battery fuel gauge circuit to calibrate itself to display the correct battery capacity. Nothing happens if you don't do this, other than an incorrect battery life reading.

After you've used a battery for a long time, particularly if you keep it plugged in all the time, the battery fuel gauge might get a bit "out of sync" with the battery (accumulated measurement errors, change in battery life, etc.) and no longer show a correct battery life reading. Doing a full charge/discharge cycle recalibrates the fuel gauge, allowing it to display a more accurate battery life reading. But this is a purely cosmetic thing - it doesn't do anything for the actual battery life.

Be careful about a lot of the myths about battery care, a lot of them stem from advice given for NiMH/NiCad batteries (which are very rare in laptops these days), many of which either do not apply, or are completely opposite to the recommendations for Lithium ion batteries.

xapim

christy1 said:

 Lithium ion batteries have a limited shelf-life anyway. If you left a lithium-ion battery on the shelf unused, it will deteriorate in battery life anyway. The amount of charge that the battery holds while it is being stored affects its lifetime, a battery stored at 100% charge ends up with shorter battery life than one stored at 40-50% (the ideal storage charge). So if you are going to leave a laptop for a long time and are worried about battery life, run it down to 40% (and optionally put it in a water-tight bag, in a fridge, not a freezer, a fridge). Technically this does mean actually that it would be better for laptop battery life to keep the battery charge at around 40-50% all the time, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop battery.

HOWEVER, there may be one situation where you might want to do a full discharge - all laptops have a small circuit that keeps track of the charge level on the battery, called the battery fuel gauge. Measuring the capacity of a battery is not an exact science, so this circuit needs calibration. This is why manufacturers recommend that you should do a full charge and then discharge when you get a new battery or device - it's not because this does anything good for battery life, but rather because it gives an opportunity for the battery fuel gauge circuit to calibrate itself to display the correct battery capacity. Nothing happens if you don't do this, other than an incorrect battery life reading.

After you've used a battery for a long time, particularly if you keep it plugged in all the time, the battery fuel gauge might get a bit "out of sync" with the battery (accumulated measurement errors, change in battery life, etc.) and no longer show a correct battery life reading. Doing a full charge/discharge cycle recalibrates the fuel gauge, allowing it to display a more accurate battery life reading. But this is a purely cosmetic thing - it doesn't do anything for the actual battery life.

Be careful about a lot of the myths about battery care, a lot of them stem from advice given for NiMH/NiCad batteries (which are very rare in laptops these days), many of which either do not apply, or are completely opposite to the recommendations for Lithium ion batteries.

Thanks for the reply for the meantime what i am doing is completely deplete the battery every 1 or 2 weeks because as i said the laptop is on 24/7 which is not good for the battery but maybe in future i will just switch it of internally for awhile and back on to charge it when needed

xapim

DosWasBest said:

I don't think that's true.  My portable ac power to my Predator is metered and shows working at around 50% when I connect the Predator in a situation where the battery is not fully charged.  Once the battery fully charges, my portable ac drops down to about 25%.   I take this to mean that the computer now takes the battery out of the ac circuit since it's now fully charged.  Any power going to the computer, is now ac, bypassing any battery-charge routines.

I would agree that batteries last longer if they are occasionally run in the computer until very low or ready for complete recharge.  I believe that, in theory, extends the life somewhat over the long course of time.

If a continual feed of ac power were accepted by a fully charged battery, it seems to me, that would cause a fire or explosion danger.  Which of course, does not happen, because the computer stops ac flowing to the battery once fully charged.

That's at least how I understand these things.

Thanks for the reply i suspected it should have some kind of kill switch like some mobiles when they are full to not damage the battery but i never measured the power from the ac before

sri369

Get a software like the one in screenshot that shows charge and discharge rates too to get a better idea of how much current is going to battery. The one I am using is a freeware.

sri369

christy1 said:

Hi,
if the unit is connected to the main always then definitely it will damage the battery. 

Nope. It won't. Before my current laptop, I had one gamer laptop (not counting the two others - one for my wife n one for my office), all three connected on A/C literally 100% of the time.
After 5.5 years... gamer laptop battery at 46% wear,
After 6 years... wife's laptop at 45% wear,
After 1.5 years... my work laptop at 3% wear.

Modern phones and laptop bypass battery charging when their charge reaches 100%.

xapim

sri369 said:

christy1 said:

Hi,
if the unit is connected to the main always then definitely it will damage the battery. 

Nope. It won't. Before my current laptop, I had one gamer laptop (not counting the two others - one for my wife n one for my office), all three connected on A/C literally 100% of the time.
After 5.5 years... gamer laptop battery at 46% wear,
After 6 years... wife's laptop at 45% wear,
After 1.5 years... my work laptop at 3% wear.

Modern phones and laptop bypass battery charging when their charge reaches 100%.

i got the battery bar pro and if the software is accurate it shows charge rate 0 mW and battery wear 4.1% of 48,944 mWh capacity 46,953 mWh elaped time 16:07 (i guess hours?) full runtime always showing calculating...

But i always let the battery run out every 2 weeks anyway

sri369

xapim said:

i got the battery bar pro and if the software is accurate it shows charge rate 0 mW and battery wear 4.1% of 48,944 mWh capacity 46,953 mWh elaped time 16:07 (i guess hours?) full runtime always showing calculating...

But i always let the battery run out every 2 weeks anyway

2 weeks is an overkill, if you are doing it only for the sake of it. You can go on with a full discharge about once in 2-3 months.

xapim

sri369 said:

xapim said:

i got the battery bar pro and if the software is accurate it shows charge rate 0 mW and battery wear 4.1% of 48,944 mWh capacity 46,953 mWh elaped time 16:07 (i guess hours?) full runtime always showing calculating...

But i always let the battery run out every 2 weeks anyway

2 weeks is an overkill, if you are doing it only for the sake of it. You can go on with a full discharge about once in 2-3 months.

Thanks for the advice i was just doing what the acer support recomended when i contacted them about the battery always on 24/7 they also advised i could just open the laptop (easiest laptop i had ever opened) and just disconnect the battery if im always on A/C 24/7 if not just let it discharge completely every 2 weeks those were the 2 options they gave me LOL