Why is the M2 PCIE slot speed capped to 1.5GBs? VN7-592G-71ZL

As posted on reddit (full review): https://www.reddit.com/r/laptops/comments/3rmpjg/acer_aspire_v15_nitro_black_edition_vn7592g71zl/

The 850 Pro NVME does indeed work, even for boot however it's capped at 1.5GB/s. Laptop VN7-592G-71ZL

http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/aspirevnitro[2] - ""A cutting-edge SSD (NVMe PCIe)1 boosts storage-reaction speeds by up to four times2" "2. Non-Volatile Memory Express (NVMe) PCIe SSDs are known for their very fast storage-reaction speeds."" - doesn't sound "cutting edge" to me if capped to 1.5GB/s.

Can someone from Acer support reply as to why the M2 SSD slot is capped at 1.5GB/s? Does it only have two lanes or is there some other limiting factor? If this won't be fixed, can you update the above page to have more relistic verbage such as, "A somewhat cutting-edge SSD boosts reaction speeds up to 1.5GB/S"?

Thanks!

ssdspeed850.png

Accepted answers

All comments

zorrobyte

No word on this? Is Acer going to simply continue falsely advertising on their website?

We only need a BIOS update.. The slot is indeed 4x..

ElizabethS

This is a peer to peer support forum. It is not monitored by Acer for technical issue or questions.

zorrobyte

Yeah, I'm aware. This issue also isn't acknowledged by Acer through official support channels claiming "they don't support 3rd party configurations".

I'm very displeased that they spam the V15's sales page claiming NVME support but clearly the implementation is crippled. NVME drives DO NOT appear in the BIOS boot device selection list, Linux boot support is impossible (rEFInd works if you muck about on Fedora, OpenSUSE and Ubuntu with Fedora completely freezing at boot logo) and most importantly, the 4x PCIE M2 slot is defective as it is capped at 1.5GB/s (and NO, this isn't due to the drive "running in SATA mode"). This is a verified 4x PCiE slot that Acer or their upstream suppliers managed to cripple either by bad design or cost cutting.

Oh and the included WiFi module is garbage. Take it from a sysadmin who has tried numerous clean installs of Win 10 Pro/Home, tried several routers (Asus 68U & R6300V2) on Tomato, DD-WRT and stock - 5GHZ is simply impossible unless you use WPS to "trick" it into connecting the first time (which WPS is insecure by implementation).

I have managed to get the V15 banned from Amazon for a few days and I will be sending in my V15 for a refund.

2015-11-16 00_13_09-Amazon.com_ Acer Aspire V15 Nitro Black Edition VN7-592G-71ZL 15.6-inch Full HD .png

Cory-Acer

Hi zorrobyte,

Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm asking a few questions about the infromation you've brought up here.

I'll get some responses and be back with answers soon.

Cory

davidcci

1. r u have performance problem with samsung 850 pro series or 950 seires? 850 pro din't support NVMe, but 950 seires can. such as: SM951.

2. may i know the BIOS version on your system?

3. the wifi module u have should be NFA344A right? which driver version in your system?

zorrobyte

Sorry yes, it is the 950 Pro NVME M2

No idea on the BIOS and WiFi fronts, I returned the laptop to Amazon and ordered a XPS 13 instead.

tom_R2E3

So what is the situation here. I am considering purchasing this laptop, I would intend to install a large m.2 SSD (500Gb)

Can anyone else clarify the speed of this slot?

Cory-Acer

tom_R2E3 wrote:
So what is the situation here. I am considering purchasing this laptop, I would intend to install a large m.2 SSD (500Gb)

Can anyone else clarify the speed of this slot?

@zorrobyte I apologize that we didn't address this for you in a timely manner. I understand why you had to make the decision you did and hope you enjoy your device.

@tom_R2E3 I'm working on that, the theoretical speed max is 2GB/S and zorrobyte is showing about 75%. We're asking our R&D what the difference is, but remember hitting the theoretical max for any of these specifications rarely run at this theoretical max. It's more of a best case testing scenario speed.

Cory

zorrobyte

Thank you @Acer-Cory, now we are getting somewhere! "Four times" reaction speed would be about 2,000MB/s as SATA caps out at 500MB/s. I know NVME SSDs weren't available when designing the current gen of netbooks so it's hard to anticipate - but it may be a good idea for your Marketing Depot to add in M.2 slot rated speeds or the like (possibly on Amazon as well, could get your laptop unbanned from sale). I realize that 99% of your customers will never open their laptop and that's fine - however the V15 series (and as you get into more enthusiast builds, I hear Acer is building a gaming laptop), you'll find that more users will appreciate the technical details and could make or break some sales at the high end. It may also be worth mentioning somewhere that the wifi card is M.2 as well (only a handful of laptops use this slot so far).

While you are at it (as I'd never have a prayer of contacting Acer R&D), could you let them know that NVME drives do not appear in the BIOS boot list either in UEFI or Legacy? Technically boot is possible with Windows (it'll always appear as the 2nd drive though) but any prayer of Linux support is goodbye (unless you use rEFInd), as the BIOS boots to a lovely "No boot Device" and the F12 Boot menu is empty (tried multiple distros with native EFI bootloader support: Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE).

I may of just had a faulty WiFi card in my example - but it was still concerning that 5Ghz support was not working, as above I tried both an Asus ac-68u and a Netgear 6300v2 - in 40-80Mhz Widths, 802.11n&802.11ac - on latest stock firmware, on DD-WRT and even AdvancedTomato (a TomatoUSB derivitive), I even tried 5GHZ Tethering to my Android and iPhone device, no dice. The only thing that worked was using WPS (the button on the router) to "force" or "trick" the wifi card in connecting, which is very odd. The model of the provided wifi card is (on top, the installed WiFi card was a replacement Killer 1525, recommended for "high performance" notebooks):

https://goo.gl/photos/78YnRvQVertoWKuGA

Good job on R&D for relocating the WiFi antennas to the display panel, they solved the reception issues of the past gen. The Killer 1525 would make a great addition to the Black series, they provide some cool Marketing materials you can place on the Acer & Amazon sales page and would compete with other Skylake gaming laptop builds. It's pretty much the best M.2 WiFi card one can get for the time being and if Amazon sales are any indication - a $10 increase in price (possibly none with bulk purchasing) could overall help sales.

tom_R2E3

Ok thanks, I understand.

Whilst I am here, can you tell me whether m.2 sata SSD III drives (with the two slots) will also work in this laptop? Or is it only PCIe (with the single slot)?

Many thanks

Tom

zorrobyte

Heyo Tom!

From my experience, the slot is M.2 M keyed:

M.2-keying-lsi.jpg

This means that just about any M.2 SSD will work including the 950 EVO & 950 Pro. I would personally recommend saving some money and going with the 950 Evo due to the mentioned issues and use the spare cash to get a Killer 1525 wifi card off of Amazon and a nice laptop skin!

Apart from the mentioned issues, the V15 Black is still decent for the price and you aren't going to find a 960 with 4GB of VRAM at the price point. If you are okay with possibly changing out the WiFi card and only running Windows - this would fit the bill for Medium settings gaming and Video work. Battery life is okay at 5 hours, possibly get a Chromebook for on the couch - in my lap surfing?

M.2-keying-lsi.jpg

junky

Hi

How about the Thunderbolt 3 ? is it capped too?

cruisinforgold

Question Zorrobyte (or others):

Did you mean save dollars and go with 850 EVO like this one -

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-850-EVO-3-5-Inch-MZ-N5E500BW/dp/B00TGIW1XG/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

It's a SATA M.2, but will this work in the new VN7-792g Black Edition units?

zorrobyte

Yep, I believe that is the best deal for the performance considered.

It should work just fine with any laptop with a M2 SSD slot!

Cory-Acer

All,

Just to update, we've identified that the PCIe was limited as zorrobyte indicated. This is a limitation that we will address in a BIOS update. I don't have an ETA on the release of the BIOS at this time, but I did want to let everyone know that we're working to get that released and will address the issue related to the M.2 PCIe.

Thanks,
Cory

junky

Anything about the TB3 speed?

mitchboy9

Hello, I just purchased a same laptop. I wanted to make sure if samsung 950 Pci e boots and goes to windows 10 [NVME boot] ?

I know right now its capped at 1.5GB/S, that speed is fine for me.

Thanks

cruisinforgold

I think what zorrobyte is telling you above answers this question (using the Samsung 950 Pro NVME/PCIe x4 SSD)

"While you are at it (as I'd never have a prayer of contacting Acer R&D), could you let them know that NVME drives do not appear in the BIOS boot list either in UEFI or Legacy? Technically boot is possible with Windows (it'll always appear as the 2nd drive though) but any prayer of Linux support is goodbye (unless you use rEFInd), as the BIOS boots to a lovely "No boot Device" and the F12 Boot menu is empty (tried multiple distros with native EFI bootloader support: Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE)."

During normal boot it does not show on the BIOS boot list for UEFI or Legacy mode. But with intervention by the operator you can boot by manually selecting the 2nd drive on poweron. At least that's how I read it.

Maybe Zorrobyte will comment on his exact boot configuration and if he left the hdd in place during his testing.

zorrobyte

mitchboy9 wrote:
Hello, I just purchased a same laptop. I wanted to make sure if samsung 950 Pci e boots and goes to windows 10 [NVME boot] ?
I know right now its capped at 1.5GB/S, that speed is fine for me.

Thanks

About booting:

As NVME drives don't appear in the BIOS, you cannot set boot order.

This means that after installing a NVME drive, one has to ensure whatever device is connected to SATA doesn't contain a bootable partition, else you'll always boot off of SATA with no way to change this.

A workaround is to install on the NVME drive as normal and be sure to format the SATA drive, either using a linix boot USB (check out gparted) or the windows installer itself.

xalanxlp

Thank you for the useful information you found out.

Can you please tell me where I can buy the 1525 card from for cheap? I checked amazon and it costs 40 bucks. Thanks!

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