persius Tracker

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 22:35:41 GMT

@cship2 - Very well articulated, sir.

@snuffy - I get what you are saying. You support the idea that the hardware vendor can do what they choose. I get that. The large problem that the community of these users faces, is not that Acer adopted a different BIOS - it's that the official documentation provided by Acer suggests that a Legacy CSM exists, when it was actually removed by their latest BIOS release. You have success with Windows 7 because of a different method - I want a legacy mode that can not be achieved as-sold or documented. This being said, my research suggested (as documented by Acer and even on this community forum), Legacy CSM is an option; when in-FACT, it was removed as an option. That's my gripe, and it's a legitimate one.

In conclusion, I am not alone. Many users are having issues with Acer's ethics when it comes to their own support staff lying about "hardware limitations", when, in reality - is just a masquerade for a software-BIOS limitation intentionally imposed. No Legacy CSM should have been disclosed prior to purchase - that's why I returned all of the units.

Failing to disclose a significant difference like this, which is contrary to the official documentation, is an abuse of the consumer trust. As a business owner, I would NEVER do that to my customers intentionally, and will not support other businesses who do. I hope Acer takes their user feedback seriously, any legitimate company would.

Thank you

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 16:26:07 GMT

@Snuffy-

We, here in America, have certain anti-trust laws which protect consumers from total control on monopolization efforts by companies like Microsoft and Acer. These "programs" prohibit consumer choice. I say NO because I am a consumer and that IS my choice. I choose NOT to purchase or recommend Acer because of their practices - and I have every right to do so. I am asking Acer to change their policies and adopt a more open platform rather than a restrictive one. These policies conflict with my ethical and moral guidelines and I believe it should be mentioned here. I also know, for a fact, that policies like these hurt the bottom line for companies like Acer, and if this awareness brings a positive change for their company, then more power to them.

I am not asking Acer to "support" Windows 7, rather give their customers the ability to choose for themselves. If the customer chooses to install something that Acer does not support, then that's on the customer. Since this is the entire purpose of my posting, and my job is to also make other consumers aware of "programs" like these. If you read my posts, this is because I am unable to install Linux, FreeBSD, and ANY other operating systems, including Windows 7.

If you read, I am unable to use the CSM Legacy mode, because it was disabled in the latest BIOS update from Acer. This is by design and choice, not just an oversight. I have proved that the hardware supports OS's like Linux and FreeBSD - HOWEVER, not with the BIOS as shipped.

This is not about restricting your ability to challenge and learn a new method- this is about you having a choice, and all consumers having a choice, instead of allowing policies like this to control you.

I also have my reasons for dislike of Windows 8 - mostly privacy concerns and compatibility issues with existing business platforms. However, I am in support of Microsoft progress and operating system progress in general - but not at the expense of the consumer's ability to also progress by LEARNING NEW stuff like Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Give it a try, you may find it a unique challenge to overcome a manufacture-imposed limitation to get what you want out of hardware.

You have the choice to recommend and support these policies - I have the choice to object to them and not support those practices.

Thank you

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 02:09:43 GMT

@cship2:

Thank you for your support of the open source community. As you stated, I believe Acer has developed a great low-power consumption product here, which would be received by a larger community if they supported true legacy-boot options. The strategy they have adopted to prevent this kind of incorporation will lead to significant losses in their overall sales.

Personally, I represent the decision making for several medium-large government and private clients. I have been in this industry for almost 20 years now, and people rely on the kind of advice I give them when it comes to choosing hardware and software for their needs. While it's true I disagree with Microsoft tactics in this regard, I still recommend their software to my clients in large quantities. It's very disappointing when I see a hardware vendor like Acer intentionally restricting the freedom of choice of a consumer when it comes to operating system selecting - and then LIE about it by stating that the OS is not "supported", when clearly it works if they simply enable the consumer's ability to boot in a legacy mode.

Legacy mode. That's a nifty concept in itself. While I agree that security is important, sacrificing consumer rights in the face of that is incomprehensible. Companies who support that model, should not exist. Therefore, I will continue to advocate that Acer stop this practice, and nobody should purchase their products until they adopt a policy which supports their customers instead of restricts them. "Explore beyond limits" - it's hippocratic that they have this motto when it's impossible to explore beyond Acer imposed limits within their guidelines.

Thank you

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 18:05:15 GMT

Me also, however, I will not purchase Acer again because they still do not "support" the hack to fix it, even though they created the problem to begin with.

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 15:15:47 GMT

The Intel processor is able to boot in to a legacy mode. As I said - all the problems went away with a simple BIOS update, that Acer is not providing. No hardware needed modification.

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:28:10 GMT

Several programs will make a valid boot block on any USB, CD, DVD media - however, there is NO LEGACY MODE in the shipped UEFI/BIOS for this device. You are required to PIRATE a hacked version of the BIOS and downgrade to that, just in order to boot something like Linux, Windows 7, FreeBSD, etc.

Acer has a problem here. @ Snuffy - M$ is very touchy about changing hardware, but M$ does not rule my life, my customers lives, or this world. You can NOT use Rufus USB Maker and boot anything aside from M$ Windows 8.1 on this device. I dislike Microsoft operating systems and choose to purchase hardware from vendors that permit me to MAKE THE CHOICE of what operating system I would like to use, or install pursuant to my own customer needs.

Why are we embedding keys in BIOS to lock the consumer into a single-vendor OS / platform? That's unethical. Get real here, piracy is not the problem - unethical business practices are, and Acer is on the top of this list now that they are in bed with Microsoft with this scheme. Also, the entire purpose of UEFI was to "secure" boot sectors and operating systems, however, Microsoft has required vendors that distribute Winodws 8.1 to implement those features. Here, we see Acer taking the next step and intentionally REMOVING the "Legacy" mode, completely preventing the consumer choice. Good luck with that - this is why we have antitrust laws, and businesses like Acer and Microsoft have no problem with just paying the fees for violating them because their profits usually exceed those fees.

Thanks, but the consumers are right and Acer should have never removed the Legacy Mode.

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 21:26:31 GMT

I have several of the XC-603 UB17's, with Intel Celeron processors. Acer, intentionally, nerfed the BIOS to prevent any other operating system (other than Windows 8.1) from even booting. This is NOT a hardware issue, I tested this theory and after I was able to get around BIOS - everything worked great. HOWEVER, I am not in the business of downgrading/reflashing BIOS just to boot another OS on to hardware that would otherwise support it - and I am certainly NOT in the business of supporting businesses with those lousy ethics.

I will be returning all of the PC's to the store tomorrow, since I was mislead in to believing this was an actual PC (intel processors, chipset, etc, etc). Not cool - this is one of the most astonishingly unethical business practices I have ever seen in this industry, and I can not wait to write some good articles about my experiences with Acer.

Get it together Acer, you are losing customers this way.

Re: Brand New Aspire XC-603G (ACX-603G-UW31). Windows 7 will not install in Legacy Mode

persius — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 03:52:27 GMT

I just purchased some of these units and tried to install another operating system as well.

Unfortunately, this device has a problem booting from anything other than a Microsoft-supplied operating system, specifically the version 8 varities.

I have tried two bootable USB devices, two CD-R's (Bootable), and a DVD-R (Bootable) - disabled secure boot mode, enabled the boot menu, and still get:

"Reboot and Select proper Boot Device

or Insert Boot Media in selected device and press a key"

The above mentioned bootable devices boot all of the other computers I have tried, just not this Acer Aspire.

I would like to have some advice on how to boot this computer with any industry standard bootable device, aside from Windows 8.1, before I return them to Best Buy for full refunds. I was impressed with Acer, but I have never had such a hard time booting a computer in the past 20 years of my IT life. This device has changed my mind about using any Acer hardware in the future - deviation from industry standards and tricking users into being locked into an OS is dirty and an unethical business practice.