tópico Re: W700 i5 throttle issue em 2012 Archives

ICONIA TAB W700 Throttling/Turbo Boost issues

BenjaminLSR — Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:06:28 GMT

Hello,

I bought this tablet because of its i5 which was supposed to bring a lot of power BUT ACER W700 is having Throttling issue. After a few seconds, CPU and GPU will throttle down to their minimum respectiv frequencies, respectivly, 1.7Ghz and 350Mhz.

Let's be clear, you can't offer an i5 slate that will throttle under the actual power of an i3 that you also offer.

Now that it's said I feel scammed I bought this 900€ slate which instantly throttle when I need it's i5 power.

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EDIT: After research I would say ACER defined a far too low Turbo Boost Timer Limit. Maybe PROCHOT or TDP or DPTF are also faulty.

SAMSUNG with its SLATE 7 brought a software called "Easy Settings" which allowed us to enable FULL POWER and enjoy the i5 and HD 3000 maximum frequency.

Re: W700 Throttling problem

BenjaminLSR — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:10:55 GMT

Any idea ACER ?

Re: W700 Throttling problem

sopaj96 — Thu, 06 Dec 2012 22:51:40 GMT

idk if this helps but this is a full pc in tablet form,, so if there is an software for acer laptops that can do this, it should also work on W700... But the W700 is very new so if there are no other software, then I´ll guess you need to wait :/
Have you checked if there are any settings on windows or the cpu and gpu itself?

Re: W700 Throttling problem

BenjaminLSR — Fri, 07 Dec 2012 07:03:36 GMT

Hey,

I can’t find any software for other acer ultrabook that could help me.

And yes, I set windows to Performance mod but that won’t even retard the throttling...

Re: W700 Throttling problem

BenjaminLSR — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 06:54:28 GMT

Still waiting for you ACER...

Re: W700 Throttling problem

trippinnik — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:44:32 GMT

have you looked in the bios?

Do you mean that UEFI thing ? It's almost empty. Acer,...

BenjaminLSR — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:19:07 GMT

Do you mean that UEFI thing ?

It's almost empty.

Acer, feel free to react professionaly just like Lenovo. Can you confirm if it comes from either, Turbo Boost Timer Limit, PROCHOT, TDP or DPTF ?

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

BenjaminLSR — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 19:36:13 GMT

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

Acer-Travis — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 20:55:36 GMT

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. We are forwarding this information to the proper department for investigation.

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

jordanl17 — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 04:26:29 GMT

Do you thik the i3 version of the w700 has this throttleing issue? How can I find out?

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

BenjaminLSR — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 08:43:15 GMT

Acer-Travis wrote:
Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. We are forwarding this information to the proper department for investigation.
Regards,
Acer Travis

Thanks Travis. Now, let's wait for some "proper department" investigation and feedbacks.

I'll stick to this thread.

jordanl17 wrote:
Do you thik the i3 version of the w700 has this throttleing issue? How can I find out?

i3 doesn't have TURBO BOOST. I don't think you'll suffer any throttle. Maybe you can expect even better performance than i5 (that's a shame).

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

sopaj96 — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:05:01 GMT

"i3 doesn't have TURBO BOOST. I don't think you'll suffer any throttle. Maybe you can expect even better performance than i5 (that's a shame)."

Thats not going to happen... just chill and wait a few days...the tablet has barely start to sell so you will need to wait a few more days or weeks...
the i3 will never perform better than i5, theres a reason why the i5 is more expensive..

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

PEJUman — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:03:06 GMT

Actually, from what I researched, the i5 w700 seems to throttle down to 1.7Ghz within half a minute or so. Which would make the 1.8 i3 faster during extended full load (encoding, large zip file, CD rips, anything over 90 seconds or so of full CPU load).

I would be willing to bet that statistically, the i3 probably a few watts less than the i5 under full load (mainly due to the turbo 2.0 on i5). And if one would reverse the approach, i3 vs. i5 non turbo, the i3 power consumption may be 1 or so watts higher than the i5 @ 1.7. The tray prices for these 2 processors are the same ($225), suggesting that it cost Intel the same amount of money to make them, i.e. Same binning process, and simply let the system designer choose i3 vs. i5 based on their platform size/cooling capacity.

With that being said, if acer designed the cooling system Max capability slightly under 17W, say 14W or 10W, then the i5 will simply throttle down. And there would be no recourse/OEM bios fix for this, unless one is willing to forgo their warranty with custom bios.

I OC'd various Intel procs from Pentium pro thru i7s, going as far as thermocouple instrumented water cooling loops; and I can say that most of the time, Intel spec on TDP is an absolute limit, which none of my procs able to hit without overvolt/overclock. Which brings me to the conclusion that these i3, i5, etc TDP specs are just guidelines/do not exceed limit, with the actual processor TDP depends on their VID & default clock.

At the end of the day I think turbo boost is a simple, yet clever trick by intel to convert thermal inertia of the cooling system into transient performance improvement. and if acer didn't design any excess thermal capacity in W700, then the i5 is wasted here.

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

jordanl17 — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:16:06 GMT

you remind me of me! i remember oc'ing a 486 back in the day using a Peltier cooler.

I've been using the w700 i3 with a 120gb sandforce based drive for a few weeks, its been great. I'm not encoding 1080p movies, but it feels plenty fast for casual use.

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

PEJUman — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 06:27:00 GMT

Jordan

I've been eyeing the i3 W700 myself, was carefully considering the i5, but your comment sealed the deal.

3 it is, was only worried on occasional hiccup when scrolling youtube/flash video, when the i5 turbo might actually do something. but I don't think that would ever worth $100.

I don't think I will ever need the i5 for casual, kitchen table/living room touch based computing.

on a side note, since you upgraded the mSATA, did you see mini-PCI wifi on the MB? is it soldered? was considering an intel 5300 or 6300 wifi cards to replace the slightly flaky OEM wifi and hoping to install additional antenna(s) to get the 3x3 450Mbs wifi link.

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

BenjaminLSR — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 09:31:47 GMT

PEJUman wrote:
Jordan

I've been eyeing the i3 W700 myself, was carefully considering the i5, but your comment sealed the deal.
3 it is, was only worried on occasional hiccup when scrolling youtube/flash video, when the i5 turbo might actually do something. but I don't think that would ever worth $100.
I don't think I will ever need the i5 for casual, kitchen table/living room touch based computing.

on a side note, since you upgraded the mSATA, did you see mini-PCI wifi on the MB? is it soldered? was considering an intel 5300 or 6300 wifi cards to replace the slightly flaky OEM wifi and hoping to install additional antenna(s) to get the 3x3 450Mbs wifi link.

Hey PEJUman,

You can replace both mSATA and mini-PCI but, that could cancel your garentee.

Please let's not talk about overclocking and such thing here, I don't want ACER to missunderstand my post which is supposed to point a TRUE problem, that you PEJUman well resumed.

I would NEVER have bought a W700 with an i5 if I had knew it would throttle under the actual power of an i3.

You ACER should understand this thread is pretty serious. This is terrible for your consumers and already been reported on tabletpcreview.

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

sopaj96 — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 11:48:01 GMT

http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/gsmgpspda/tablette/unique-iconiatab-w700-sujet_25182_1.htm#t1278101

If you scroll down you will see some tablet benchmarks... You can see that the sandy brigde i3 procosser has 5,2 on index while the ivy bridge i5 has 6,9... From the looks the i5 has no problems with reaching its full power... Maybe you got an faulty one?:/
Oh and...have you tried to phone Acer? I would have done that directly!

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

BenjaminLSR — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:23:01 GMT

sopaj96 wrote:
http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/gsmgpspda/tablette/unique-iconiatab-w700-sujet_25182_1.htm#t1278101

If you scroll down you will see some tablet benchmarks... You can see that the sandy brigde i3 procosser has 5,2 on index while the ivy bridge i5 has 6,9... From the looks the i5 has no problems with reaching its full power... Maybe you got an faulty one?:/
Oh and...have you tried to phone Acer? I would have done that directly!

We're not talking about a reaching problem, but a keeping problem.

W700 with an i5 will reach it's maximum frequency but won't keep it for more than a few seconds (perfect for faking WEI).
In fact, if WEI would last longer (like 1-2mins), i3 and i5 scores would be a lot closer.

A 120 seconds test would give this result (yeah this isn't a proper calcul, this is just to give you an idea):

120 * 1.8 Ghz = 216 (i3)

20 * 2.6 Ghz + 100 * 1.7 Ghz = 222 (i5)

20 <- 20 seconds before throttling.

100 <- 100 seconds with throttling.

I don't want to sound rude but Acer hotline would have result in: You have a faulty slate (which is wrong), please return it. This throttling problem is, "a bit complicated" and require technical skills. I would have needed to call 20 times acer hotline before any redirection to some kind of "technician".

Now that it is said, Travis said he forwarded this problem, let's wait...

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

sopaj96 — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:09:06 GMT

Hmm :/
Acer come on! We need answer... I wanted the i5 for a reason...
Have you tried phoneing them? Please do so that would help no only you but everyone else!
Are you sure there are no settings or intel program that can fix this?

Re: W700 i5 throttle issue

sopaj96 — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 12:10:13 GMT

Oh and by the way... how can you notice the throttling? When doea it happen and how can you norice it?